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Re: WTC Attack
#76816 09/15/2001 4:52 AM
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CARTOON .. I completely agree with you.
Yes, Ben Ladin was trained by USA to be used against the USSR.

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Re: WTC Attack
#76817 09/15/2001 4:53 AM
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Well if he was trained by the USA that means he is lethal and knows what his doing.

Re: WTC Attack
#76818 09/15/2001 9:05 AM
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Actually he was trained by the CIA.. so they cold their own againt the USSR..

Re: WTC Attack
#76819 09/15/2001 9:52 AM
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But, do we know for a fact he did it/

Re: WTC Attack
#76820 09/15/2001 10:35 AM
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I doubt it'll be proven "without a shadow of a doubt", but the terrorists killed on the planes were all known associates of his. Phone conversations between his followers have been recorded, congratulating each other on a "job well done". For once, thank god for Etchelon.

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Put them through COURT?!? However high-and-mightly that might be in the justice system, it's not practical. With 6 or so years for a case review, and appeal, can you imagine the terrorist attacks that will happen to persuade their release?

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Blinded BY current events? I think you'll find that's an oxymoron.

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So was Hitler. That kind of evil genius should be deplored, not awed.

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If that were true, why would powers like China and Russia, who have opposed US policy and actions for years suddenly feel the need for a favour now?

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Re: WTC Attack
#76821 09/15/2001 12:54 PM
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So what would you have Borg?

Abandon the principles of justice and some of the values the USA was founded on.. ?

If you do, then as cheesy as it might sound, the terrorists will have broken you.

Re: WTC Attack
#76822 09/15/2001 3:04 PM
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maybe, but they won't be around to gloat about it...


- Allen wavey
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Re: WTC Attack
#76823 09/15/2001 3:16 PM
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Is it me or are some of you acting like the US is the bad guy in this situation?


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Re: WTC Attack
#76824 09/15/2001 3:38 PM
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I'm sorry if I seem that way, but I cannot lie to myself and portray the USA as some sort of saint or 100% pure and innocent.

Anyway, if you guys wanna carry on thinking with your manhood instead of your brain, then thats your choice of course.

I had somewhat hoped for cooler heads to prevail, but go ahead, rejoice if/when the USA bombs Afghanistan to hell, finds out it never even scratched Osama or his band of idiots, and only stirred the rubble left by the Soviet Union, putting a few thousand more bodies on top to keep the decor fresh.

Then do it all over again, when a few thousand people that realise they have just lost their loved ones to the US in those attacks, decide to commit their own brand of terrorism.

Re: WTC Attack
#76825 09/15/2001 10:26 PM
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Put them through court? Is that all they deserve. They deserve to bew executed. So many people died and all they get put through is court?

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Re: WTC Attack
#76826 09/16/2001 8:47 AM
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Again, you are willing to forget the principles of American society?
Then your values are nothing but a sham?

I'd have thought out of all the forums I visit, that this one would have the most intelligent and formed opinions.. lol

http://www.isonews.com/forums/showthread.php?s=1b63d475b200438167a1d25b54a58836&threadid=44715

Re: WTC Attack
#76827 09/16/2001 11:27 AM
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Quote
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The people you said that too, aren't americans either.


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Re: WTC Attack
#76828 09/16/2001 12:45 PM
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I believe we are showing the values and beliefs our country was founded on and lives by. If it were not true we would have sent enough nuclear missiles to make the middle east/ southwest asia one huge crater last Tuesday afternoon.

Our government has shown remarkable restraint where none was offered in return, untold amounts of mercy where none was given. That is not to say we forgive and forget when we can never expect the same in return.

The government is making sure of suspects, targets, intent, and purpose. We will undoubtably lose American servicemen in this fight only so as little civilian casualties as possible will happen (see above comment regarding nuclear missiles). Our citizens (and those of many nations who had people working in the WTC) were not afforded the same respect.


- Allen wavey
- What Drives You?
Re: WTC Attack
#76829 09/16/2001 9:37 PM
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Well said Allen..

But I must mention that bombing for bombings sake != productive/useful.

It is very easy for Osama to hide in a nountain until the threats subside.

I just feel it obvious that a bombing has a high chance of missing the targets (they've prepared this for how long? surely they have hidden/removed anything of value by now), and more of a chance of hitting innocents.

The deaths of innocents will only strengthen the terrorist' resolve and perhaps add a few more angered by the US attacks.

Re: WTC Attack
#76830 09/16/2001 9:58 PM
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Thank you and agreed... it may still be a while before any degree of military action takes place because of the need to pinpoint targets. It would do us no good to bomb empty caves...


- Allen wavey
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Re: WTC Attack
#76831 09/16/2001 10:58 PM
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I just have to share this with you. It was written by a very close friend of mine.

==================================================
As we mourn the victims of this horrible attack, we are full of emotions. Let's focus this emotional energy on helping the victims and supporting our government and military in the coming war. Let's NOT direct our emotions against any INNOCENT people in America or around the world simply because they are from a certain religion, ethnicity, or color. Leave the enforcement of justice to government, and trust in them that we will be victorious. The terrorists are against the true teachings of Islam and common sense morals, and all good Muslims have denounced them. Hundreds of Americans and legal residents who were born in the Middle East were in the World Trade Center, and they were attacked by the terrorists, as were all free people. Many of them are still missing. If we attack innocent people, we give up freedom and imprison ourselves in hatred. If we attack innocent people, we become terrorists ourselves. If we attack innocent people, the terrorists have won.

Please pass this message on to everyone you know.

Freedom will prevail.
Take care.

Sincerely,
Gabriel
American
==================================================

Re: WTC Attack
#76832 09/17/2001 12:11 AM
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You have a wise friend Stilgar! smile

Re: WTC Attack
#76833 09/17/2001 7:50 PM
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just my 2c. that was horrible. the worst facet of human race, imo.

85% of the people in Afghanistan are not alphabetized. they dont have television, their main communication vehicle is radio. this kind of people cant die for others sins. on the other hand, many did.

even if you wipe mid east, the real bad guys are in other countries as well. such things would serve like another purpose for them to spread terror. its not an easy thing to ask, but you have to be brave and not choose the most comfortable way to handle this. civilian casualties will happen if a bombing in Afghanistan is to take place.

about osama. not that hes a good guy or something, but that his organization "is believed to have been targeting the United States and its allies since the early 1990s" seems a little too much for me.

from cnn.com
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/13/binladen.evidence/index.html
"Whilst pressure is growing for the U.S. to hit back against him, there will also be pressure to ensure that they pick the right target.

Publicly the Bush administration has refrained from naming anyone as a suspect.

Getting it wrong or striking without having the evidence to back up their case could undermine international support and erode any of the moral high ground Washington could claim."

my condolences to the victims. those were the worst scenes i saw in my entire life.

[ 09-17-2001: Message edited by: CopyCat ]

Re: WTC Attack
#76834 09/17/2001 11:13 PM
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Quote
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The guy proclaimed a fatwah in '96 against US service people and in '98 did the same for American civilians... it all stems from the Saudi's asking the US to help in 1990 in the Gulf War, Bin Laden didn't think we should be there. That was the reason in '91 he took his toys and moved to another country.


- Allen wavey
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Re: WTC Attack
#76835 09/17/2001 11:45 PM
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It's nuts that these guys think they are serving their god and their country by fighting a jihad against us. They're against the infidels, and they say the infidels are us. They might as well be a cult, because it's absolutely insane.

Re: WTC Attack
#76836 09/18/2001 12:01 AM
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There are 2 types of Jihad I've been taught of.
One is the personal Jihad (your inner struggle), and the other is the big one, leading up to the day of judgement.
Thing is, that will happen after several LARGE events happen, and a number of these events have been specified (eg, the world will abandon Islam completly - no muslims, and eventually convert back), so until those happen... there is no Jihad.

Re: WTC Attack
#76837 09/18/2001 12:59 AM
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Well in other news, I heard that Wall street re-opened today as well as some shops in NYC. True or False?

Re: WTC Attack
#76838 09/18/2001 8:20 AM
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it opened yesterday. workers had an army escort to work. the pictures made it into yesterdays late papers

Re: WTC Attack
#76839 09/18/2001 6:08 PM
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The Dow Jones was down something like 680 points yesterday. Not that I care, I'm just saying... smile

Re: WTC Attack
#76840 09/19/2001 12:56 AM
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Did they just have mega dropdowns in Wall Street and Dow Jones? Or did they get more points? laugh

Re: WTC Attack
#76841 09/19/2001 9:43 AM
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It dropped a good bit monday, but seems to have stabilized somwhat since then.

If you wanna read something more than cool, read on:

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/18/vic.heroes/

Calls indicate Flight 93 passengers went down fighting
September 19, 2001 Posted: 7:37 AM EDT (1137 GMT)



Jeremy Glick with his 12-week-old daughter, Emerson


[Linked Image]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Miles O'Brien
CNN

(CNN) -- Little more than an hour after United Airlines Flight 93 left Newark International Airport for San Francisco, California, the 757 reversed course and started heading toward Washington.

Passengers began making frantic phone calls home.

Passenger Jeremy Glick, 31, a 6-foot-1 judo champ, called his wife to tell her his plane had been hijacked. He said the hijackers had stabbed a flight attendant -- and to find out if what he had heard was true -- that another plane had crashed into the World Trade Center in New York.

When she said yes, Glick put the phone down. When he came back on the line, he told her the male passengers had taken a vote to attack the hijackers.


Todd Beamer
[Linked Image]
Todd Beamer apparently was one of those male passengers who voted to attack. He used an air-phone to call a GTE supervisor who patched him through to the FBI.

Beamer told the FBI that one hijacker positioned in the rear of the plane claimed to have a bomb strapped to his body and that he -- Beamer -- and others were going to jump him.

He had the GTE supervisor promise to call his wife, Lisa, who was due with their third child in January. After Beamer put the phone down, the supervisor overheard him say, "Let's roll."

Passenger Tom Burnett, a 6-foot-2 former high school quarterback, was also apparently part of the group. He called his wife four times during the hijacking. On the last call, he told her the male passengers were getting ready to do something.


Deena Burnett
"He said, 'They've already knifed a guy; they're saying they have a bomb. Please call the authorities,' " said Deena Burnett.

The fourth member of the passenger revolt -- and there may have been others -- was Mark Bingham -- a 6-foot-5 rugby player. He was sitting in the first-class section of the plane with Tom Burnett and, it turns out, two of the hijackers.

Bingham called his mother to say goodbye.

"He said, 'I want you to know I love you very much, and I'm calling you from the plane. We've been taken over. There are three men who say they've got a bomb,' " said Alice Hoglan.

There's no way anyone can know what happened after the passengers decided to attack.

It is known that after the jet reversed course and started heading toward Washington, President Bush authorized U.S. fighter planes to shoot it down if it threatened the nation's capital.

It never got that far. Flight 93 crashed in western Pennsylvania in a field 80 miles southeast of Pittsburgh.


- Allen wavey
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Re: WTC Attack
#76842 09/10/2002 11:36 PM
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Not to impinge on the "official" 9-11 thread, how has your views changed regarding the people surrounding the attacks of september 11, 2001?

I remember the great fear surrounding the idea that there were many people willing to die to support bin laden's cause. While there may have been some people willing to do so, the year's time since has proven that this isn't the legion that we feared. If you stop and think, there are just as many American citizens willing to die for our cause as those bands of rebels without a clue.

Travel has changed a bit here - getting on a plane to anywhere takes an hour or 2 more now than it used to. I really don't see many other changes tho. It's probably more difficult to cross the border into Mexico or Canada than it used to be.

Security at our govt. installations have increased a good bit. My nephew works for the DOE transporting/guarding nuclear material. having just hired on, his security clearance is higher than an FBI agent's.

Anyone else?


- Allen wavey
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Re: WTC Attack
#76843 09/11/2002 1:40 AM
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First I wanted them caught with a vengence. But now since the prime suspects seem to have escaped I don't ever see them getting prosecuted. And then now with Hussain and his necular bomb how does this ever get better?

Re: WTC Attack
#76844 09/11/2002 9:35 AM
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Quote
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Originally posted by Lord Dexter:
First I wanted them caught with a vengence. But now since the prime suspects seem to have escaped I don't ever see them getting prosecuted. And then now with Hussain and his necular bomb how does this ever get better?
Do you just read headlines or do you actually read the whole article? Powell said that they have reason to belive he is devloping or attempting to build one not that Saddam Hussein has one.

Re: WTC Attack
#76845 09/12/2002 2:20 AM
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I heard it on the news, didn't read it.

But yeah thats what I have been hearing. And I guess he wants to do it more with all the publicity that has happened with war of Iraq. I guess this is the only way to protect himself if the US attack?

Re: WTC Attack
#76846 09/12/2002 9:48 AM
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Well... he could pre-empt that by complying with UN Security Counsel resolutions... there's about 10 he seems to be forgetting about - like the whole "not gassing your own people" one...


- Allen wavey
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Re: WTC Attack
#76847 07/07/2005 3:00 PM
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My thoughts and prayers are with our friends in London frown


- Allen wavey
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Re: WTC Attack
#76848 07/07/2005 3:35 PM
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The people that did this are a bunch of cowards who somehow think that taking innocent lives will somehow help to prove that their ideologies/beliefs/protests/whatever deserve to be taken seriously. Nice going there, idiots, you've definitely got my vote now!

A chilling thought struck me earlier. What if this was intended to clash not with G8, but Live8? All of the attacks took place in the vicinity of Hyde Park (take a look at the BBC's map of targeted areas if you're not familiar with London). Maybe someone in the responsible organisation accidentally said July 7th instead of July 2nd. Maybe the bombers misheard the command.

It could have been much, much worse. Now that's a frightening thought.

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