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#212594 10/16/2001 1:08 PM
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Hi everyone,

I'd like to give you all a heads-up about the pricing for UBBThreads, which is the new name for WWWThreads. Note that WWWThreads is no longer available for sale; UBBThreads will be available on the infopop.com website starting this Thursday.

UBBThreads will carry a flat rate of $229 per license. Our license agreement is slightly different from Rick's in that each unique installation of the program requires a license. Rick was permitting multiple installs on the same domain. That will no longer be permitted.

Also note that previously Rick offered two different rates- one for non commercial usage and one for commercial usage. Now there is simply one rate for everyone- $229.

Other services and fees we will be offering for UBBThreads:

Member Area Annual Subscription: $125

When you purchase a new license, you always receive one year of access to the Member Area for the product at no extra cost. This is the place where you can download the latest versions of the product. After the year of access expires, customers can purchase additional annual subscriptions.

For all current WWWThreads license-holders, however, we are granting a 75% lifetime discounton Member Area subscription fees. This means that for existing licenses, you will always receive a 75% discount on the going rate for Member Area access. Based on the current rate, this means that you will be able to purchase a one-year subscription for $31.25.

The discount is tied directly to existing licenses. If you purchase another license in the future, that license will not be eligible for the discount; only your "old" license would be eligible.

Annual Support Plan: $299/$399

One new option for Threads customers is the option to pay for support. This does not mean we will not assist you with basic questions. For many customers, however, fairly intensive troubleshooting can be required. Purchasing annual support is an excellent way of ensuring that you'll receive the dedicated help you need when you need it. A rate of $299 applies if you purchase this option when you buy a license. A higher rate ($399) applies if you purchase the plan later.

Single Support Incident: $179

For those that do not desire an annual support plan, we also offer inividual support tickets that can be purchased to assist you on a one-off basis.

Professional Installation: $199

We will install your board for you for this flat fee. Upgrade and transfer installations will also be available (at different rates).

About Support

Note that when you purchase a license, support is not included. That said, we ALWAYS try very hard to assist each and every customer. We usually only require payment when an issue involves hands-on investigation/troubleshooting of an issue that is not related to a product bug. Most of the time, these issues revolve around troubleshooting configurations of various web hosts.

Like Rick has done in the past, we have very active support forums where many of our customers help themselves and this same service will continue for UBBThreads. The point of support fee options is not to make every customer pay for support, but to ensure that professional support is available for any customer that desires it.

Also note that one of the benefits of this deal is that all Threads customers will have many more support options now. You can call us anytime with your questions, suggestions, or comments. We also have a dedicated support tracking system that allows us to track every single incoming support request to ensure that every customer is properly served.

We are focused on providing the best products AND the best service for all of our customers.









Ted O'Neill
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That Pricing is the end of non-commercial use for UBBThreads with new licences.....

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If this is no increase, what is it then? From $25 a year up to $125.

Not clear for me is what happens to my current update-license, which is valid for some more years from now. Does this "discount" mean I have to pay extra money to get newer versions I already payed for? Could you please specify more clearly what happens to our existing update-licenses.

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In the other post he just made there is mention that your current expiration date for existing licenses will be kept intact. You will only need to purchase another update contract after your current contract expires.


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Hi Maze--

If I understand your terminology correctly, an "update license" is simply what we call Member Area access (the ability to access the download area for upgrades).

Your current access period will not be affected at all. Rick has given us the expiration dates for each license's acccess and those periods will still be valid.

You only need to pay for access to the Member Area after it expires.


Ted O'Neill
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absolutely!

i wouldn't have bought this forum for this price, although it's really one of the best out there..
it's simply impossible to spend so much money for one single section of a webpage when you dont plan to go commercial... even with advertismentbanners it is hard to get back the money, when you only have a small community

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Thank you... You just answered my question... Will I renew... NO... These prices are well out of my financial abilities... I am the one putting all the money towards my site... I have no financial backing... So... have fun with your new product... but I wont be around...

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Just a note on the pricing. For those that think the flat rate is expensive, this is something that I would have had to go to by the end of the year if I had kep the product on my own. Most competing products don't have a 2 tier system and personal customers usually need more help during the setup process than commercial because many don't have the technical resources to rely on. The new prices are actually very comparable to other competing products.


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Sally #212602 10/16/2001 2:02 PM
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Rick,

That is true and false... Cause you do get the people like me who don't require Technical Help to get things installed or anything due to we know what we are doing... However we are still the ones putting out the money to get a system going... and due to this increase... You will be losing some of the feature and existing users cause well... we know what we are doing and we went with you cause we didn't want to re-invent the wheel... and your prices were withen our budgets... Now... just to renew the software of a version I will be using that you wont even support anymore I have to pay MORE then I paid to get it orginally... Sorry but that is rediculous...

Billy S.

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Billy,

That's correct, there are alot of users that didn't have any need for help, but there were alot of users that I would spend several hours with on one problem.

As for the cost of renewing the software being more than what you originally paid for it, you did read that existing license holders get a 75% discount, making the total cost for annual renewals: $31.25 ( $6.25 more than what I was charging).


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Sally #212604 10/16/2001 2:08 PM
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Yes but whats the point in renewing when you all don't even support what I use??

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For those that are sticking with the PERL version, you are right, there isn't a point, and that would be the case even if the upgrade was $5 per year[]/testimages/icons/wink.gif[/].


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Sally #212606 10/16/2001 2:46 PM
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Scream - I realize your probably would have had to raise the price, but what it went to is CRAZY. Your telling me I'm going to have to pay $260 dollars a year to keep my forums up to date? What a joke. I have all the respect for you but in my opinion you made a mistake. You made a great program and I (as well as other people I know) would be happy to pay more to you to keep it how it is but instead you turn it over to Infopop. May I suggest that people who have a current license be excluded from the limit of one installation per domain? We use one for our main forum and one for our archive. I have spent so much time writing scripts for this program that it really pisses me off when something like this comes up. I'm sure if things don't change some, many people will NOT BE UPDATING.

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Ok, a couple of things here. Current license holders do operate under the terms of the existing license. The new per instance licensing applies to new licenses.

Not sure where you got the $260 price tag. But a year of upgrades cost $125, but with the 75 percent discount to existing customers you will need to pay $31.25.


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Sally #212608 10/16/2001 3:08 PM
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Clarification...

A *NEW* Threads license goes for $229 US. This license entitles you to use Threads for as long as you please.

That new license includes a year of updates.

After the year runs out, for that new license, you will need to pay whatever the going rate is for renewal, if and ONLY if you want to be able to upgrade the board. You can easily choose not to continue upgrades, or defer buying additional upgrade access until a later date.

Your existing license, the one you own now (the license Rick issued you, not a newly purchased one from Infopop), also does not expire. When its upgrade access runs out, you do NOT need to buy a new license for $229 US. You only need to get upgrade access, which you can get for 75% off the standard price. The standard price is $125, meaning you'd pay $31.25.

*edit* Fixing the prices.

Last edited by Charles_Capps; 10/16/2001 3:23 PM.

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So if I have a current license I can run 2 installations on my site for ~$30 a year and have access to upgades?

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As long as those 2 installations fall under the terms of your current license, then yes.


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For EXISTING licenses, ones purchased up until now, yes. Under the old license, you are perfectly entitled to run multiple installations under certain circumstances. We will continue to honor that license, and you can continue to get upgrades from that license with a 75% discount over whatever the normal rate is. The normal rate now is $125, meaning you would pay $31.25.

That old license does NOT carry over to new purchases - each individual instance of the software would require a seperate license.


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Charles said it much better than I did[]/testimages/icons/wink.gif[/]


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ah - and for that pricing I really think we can say that we want a professional Kind of Handbook, that tells us how to install, how to setup and how to use the options of the Board - maybee as a pdf-file or so.....

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So by upgrading to a new version we won't be agreeing to the new license/terms? But when we extend our license we will... correct? Example being:

Currently: 5 installs on 1 domain = 1 license expires 2002.

When that license expires and you extend it, then you would need 5 licenses... correct? 4 new licenses @ $229 each (or whatever it costs then)? Or 1 extension @ 75% discount of price for 1 year extension at the time?


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The new documentation will be available in both PDF and MS Word formats, and will be a major work in progress. We're trying to get the installation docs for Unix and NT ready to go out by the end of the week, however the Administration Guide may take a little longer. smile

Last edited by Charles_Capps; 10/16/2001 3:55 PM.

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paulj #212616 10/16/2001 4:07 PM
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Those five installs on the one domain are covered by the old license.

When that license's upgrade period elapses, you get a 75% discount off of the upgrade period renewal price at that time.

You do not need to purchase additional licenses when your existing license's upgrade period elapses.

Now, on the other hand, if you needed to put another Threads up on another domain (or under another circumstance that would not fall under the old license), you would then need to purcahse a new license, which would cover only that one installation.


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Gotcha. Will these policies for current W3T license holders be published somewhere on the InfoPop site?


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What about those of us with Lifetime licences? Are we going to have to purchase a one-year subscription for $31.25 right at the start - to even get into the Members Area the first time?

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>>You only need to pay for access to the Member Area after it expires.

Ah, that puts *my* fears to rest. I *won't* have to pay to get in there. That's a relief!
Now - I just have to start learning php...

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I thought your licenses (wether it was an old or new one) will not be expired. Only the 1-year upgrade authority will be expired and you should buy a new 1-year access right for upgrading your Threads.

Thus, if you're an old license holder, you don't have to worry about those terms on the new license since you do not have a new license. For those old license holders, all you have to do is to decide to keep on upgrading your Threads with 75% discount (that's $31.25) per year or not. If you choose not to upgrade, you can still use your Threads (1 license, installed several instances but under one same domain) under the old license you held.

Is that right?

Mr. B #212621 10/16/2001 9:20 PM
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Yep, that is correct. The license itself does not expire, just the access to the upgrade area.


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Mr. Oneill,

Call me dense if you care to, but I am very much confused by this new "pricing schedule".

First let me try and iterate what it appears to be for existing w3t license holders::

1) There is a fee for upgrades which is a 75% discount off the current rate beginning now? So, if you come out with a new upgrade e.g. next month, it will cost me $31.75 to get it even though I have a current w3t license? And this discount of 75% purchases upgrades for life?

2) There is an ADDITIONAL fee of $299/399 for Support regardless of the fact that we have an existing and current w3t license? In other words, Support is not an integral part of the software? Thus, if next week I need help with a "bug" or problem that is being experienced, I have to pay you $299/399 for an annual "support ticket" or $179 for a one-time incident?

My main concern is this "Member area" where it seems we have access to "upgrades". And whether or not this includes the Support for that product or if Support is an ADDITIONAL item which must be purchased apart from the actual board software.

Seriously disallusioned at this point,

Jeff Nesbitt


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Sally #212623 10/16/2001 9:49 PM
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Scream,

To make things clear, please confirm:
I believe that my current license has expired several days ago. (I cannot access the member area anymore)
What would happen if I renew/buy the upgrade license next month or next year? Would I be having 75% discounted price?

Thanks



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I'll help clear these up for you.

1) The upgrade contracts are exactly like they are now, they are good for 1 year at a time. Your upgrade contract will be valid until it expires and this will entitle you to gain access to the members area to download future releases. Once your upgrade contract expires you will need to purchase a new upgrade contract at 75% of the actual cost, $31.25. So you won't need to buy another upgrade contract until your current one expires.

2) The support issue could be better answered by Ted or Charles, but the paid support looks like it is needed if the problems aren't easily resolved. So you still get support like problems with understanding features, bugs, things like that. Like I said, I don't know all of the details on the support side, but I do know that you don't have to pay just to ask a basic question[]/testimages/icons/wink.gif[/]


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Tachyon #212625 10/16/2001 10:01 PM
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Uh, well, you can either read Scream's or mine, we said the same thing. ;)

1) The 75% discount is off the price of the purchase at that time. Right now, the price for an additional year of upgrades would be $125, meaning you'd pay $31.25. The 75% discount lasts for life.

2) Okay.. this is actually a very common misconception. Use of the support ticket system is perfectly free for in excess of 95% of all requests. That small <5% comes from the cases that require one or more of us to spend hours upon hours to fix a complex problem that the board owner couldn't fix on his/her own. Annual support pays for a certain number of those cases per year. I don't recall the number at the moment. You do NOT need to purchase support unless you anticipate being one of those extreme cases. And, of course, use of the support forums is and always will be at no charge.

Last edited by Charles_Capps; 10/16/2001 10:02 PM.

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often #212626 10/16/2001 10:01 PM
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That is correct - if you decide to wait until later to renew your access to upgrades, the 75% discount will still be there.


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Mr. Capps,

You have set my mind at ease in regard to the Support issue. Your answer to the upgrades issue was a bit unclear, but if Rick is saying "the same thing" as you, then as things now stand, for as long as I hold a valid w3t license I an entitled to FREE upgrades. After my license expires, then upgrades can be purchased at the current price less the 75% discount... Correct? []/testimages/icons/smile.gif[/]

Jeff


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Tachyon #212628 10/17/2001 12:01 AM
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Okay.. I need to clarify the way the licenses work, as that's probably the sticking point at the moment.

The license you have purchased does not expire. It lasts "forever".

The license grants you access to upgrades for a period of one year from the purchase of the license.

After that one year runs out, you may purchase an additional year.

All owners of the "old" licenses get a 75% discount over whatever we end up charging for upgrade renewals. At the moment, we'll be charging $125 US, which means you'd pay $31.25.


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For those old time W3T license holders, you'll always have the 75% discount for lifetime. You can purchase the upgrade acess right at anytime for a 75% lifetime discount for old license holders only. I hope I did not misunderstood what they're announced.

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I was looking into forums for another site I am working with now... unfortunately, now that the price of WWWThreads/UBBThreads has increased, I am suggesting VBulletin to them as a viable alternative.

I love WWWThreads/UBBThreads and all, but the price for a new installation is quite high. Yearly access to the Members section on new accounts is Ludicrously high (This is a bigger factor than you realize. VBulletin only charges $30 for yearly access for *all* members).

My other alternative is to write a forums system from the ground up, which I am actually considering at this point.

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I am a bit relieved about the situation for current licencse holders, but am dissappointed in the price increase for new users. While I can appreciate that the price may have had to increase anyway, the $125.00 yearly upgrade subscription is very steep, particularly for the non-commercial user. That's alot of money to just go up to the next point release. When you take into account the frequency of major updates, that's alot of money per point upgrade.

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I guess with a price tag of $299 they are simply trying to target busnesses. I surely would have never bought wwwthreads at that price. I simply wanted something easy to use for the fan site I help out with. The PHP version was just what I was looking for. smile

I'm not unsatisfied with the $31.25 pricing on updates for current users. Matter of fact I'm glad it is offered! I just hope I don't get lost in trying to use the new support forums.

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In reply to:


For those that think the flat rate is expensive, this is something that I would have had to go to by the end of the year




I'm sure that's true, but the new flat price is more than you were charging for commercial licenses. For personal/non-profit the increase in price is 129%. I realize that InfoPop was unlikely to price wwwthreads much less than it charges for UBB, but that's an *extraordinary* jump in price with *very* little notice.

Last edited by Matantisi; 10/17/2001 12:00 PM.
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