UBB.Developers Forums General Discussion Suggestions and Feedback NOOO YOU CANT DO THIS

I don't wanna be a Infopop person... that is why I came here... Grrr... what are we to do the loyal users and people who would really love to help make this system grow... ARGHHH...

Ohh welll... I understand why... good luck :)

Billy S.

i will never call it UBBThreads!!! []/testimages/icons/tongue.gif[/]


i'm sorry that you have to sell this product, it's truly something that one would love to call his project...
still i understand your steps

well, at least you won't go []/testimages/icons/laugh.gif[/]

The very first forum I installed was a early version of UBB. I hated it beacuse the number of forums was limited to 10. Then I hated it more beacuse they started charging for the software. So I switched to wwwthreads 2.6, and I was one of the very first lincesed owner of wwwthreads 3.x.... well I am not feeling good about this. However as a owner of this software I wish Infopop will put some effort to make wwwthreads the best forum available.

Count me in as another dissenter! I found WWWThreads because I wanted to get away from Infopop. In evaluating various boards, I was able to dump UBB and pick up WWWThreads.

Sorry - but if this is the future - then I will not be renewing my license. Time to go hunting - there are many good boards out there these days. I will not support InfoPop.

Yeah... it´s sad that the project got to the point where it was out of your hands. []/testimages/icons/frown.gif[/]
At the same time, I guess, its good. If you cant do it alone it must be a HUGE project! And it is, that´s why we are here, and we like it. []/testimages/icons/smile.gif[/]

I guess most of us enjoyed being the alternative to infopop and UBB... I dont like the name because of that, but I also realize that name will probably broaden the userbase. And that I guess will be good. And if the development and all can go faster, I am happy about it. I feel sorry for you, Scream, because it was "your" project, but you are not leaving, so... good luck! []/testimages/icons/smile.gif[/]


Funny this happened right now... just as I was about to send you these (now for the memory) :

                            ________                        __
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| | /| / / | /| / / | /| / // / / __ \/ ___/ _ \/ __ `/ __  / ___/
| |/ |/ /| |/ |/ /| |/ |/ // / / / / / /  /  __/ /_/ / /_/ (__  )
|__/|__/ |__/|__/ |__/|__//_/ /_/ /_/_/   \___/\__,_/\__,_/____/

                           _______ _                        _
                          |__   __| |                      | |
__      ____      ____      _| |  | |__  _ __ ___  __ _  __| |___
\ \ /\ / /\ \ /\ / /\ \ /\ / / |  | '_ \| '__/ _ \/ _` |/ _` / __|
 \ V  V /  \ V  V /  \ V  V /| |  | | | | | |  __/ (_| | (_| \__ \
  \_/\_/    \_/\_/    \_/\_/ |_|  |_| |_|_|  \___|\__,_|\__,_|___/


                      ________                   __
 _    ___    ___    _/_  __/ /  _______ ___ ____/ /__
| |/|/ / |/|/ / |/|/ // / / _ \/ __/ -_) _ `/ _  (_-<
|__,__/|__,__/|__,__//_/ /_//_/_/  \__/\_,_/\_,_/___/


            _|_|_ .__  _. _| _
 \/\/\/\/\/\/|_| ||(/_(_|(_|_>

Well, I have a few concerns. First, if the development process and pace of the forum will change once InfoPop gets their hands on it. How much say will users have in the forum? I think the user's ideas, wants, needs, and contributions really set W3T apart from all other forums. I'm concerned that InfoPop might not listen to what really needs to be done with the forum, and just give us some fluff talk when genuine features aren't added, and useless or hampering features are added. This just seems to be the trend with many enterprise-level companies, which is where it seems InfoPop is headed.

What I think is a question yet to be answered is just how much control will Scream be maintaining in the buyout? It's one thing for InfoPop to provide order processing and support (but what kind of support?) but quite another if they are going to have the final say on everything to do with a product, since frankly their current products don’t interest me one bit, and I fear W3T may in time start to look and feel more and more like UBB, and then the two will just be merged into one product, which would IMO effectively end all progressive development of W3T.

One of my concerns... Are how will Infopop handle the modules and hacks users like us come up with?? I know there are alot of hacks and addons users have done and put their own time into making... Will InfoPop charge people for wanting to make addons and stuff??

I really enjoy the product and I don't want to see w3t fail :(

I can understand everyone's concerns and reservations. The UBB and new UBBThreads will be marketed as 2 individual products. Things will start to be clarified in the coming weeks, but I realize until then everyone will be a bit apprehensive.

When you are requesting features and such, I'll still be the one listening. There will be other Infopop staff around, but I will still be doing the development. The only difference now is that I will have more time to actually implement the different requests. So, the development process and pace will definitely change, but for the better[]/testimages/icons/wink.gif[/].

Infopop didn't want to buy the product to make it into a UBB clone. They saw the potential for it and believe that together we really can make this into leading forum solution.

What about the pricing plan in the future? Would that be the same as the current price? Or it will be as expensive as the rest of UBB product?

I hate to say, but the reason I use WWWThreads ONLY because the developer knows what he is doing. And the code is clean enough to extend on it. And I hope the code base will be as clean as what it is right now as more developers work on "UBBThreads".....

There are a couple of developers work on Vbulletin. If you take a look at the code, it is less than desire to hack on it...

Hi everyone-

I can't give you too many details because we have not even formally announced this ourselves yet, but I can tell you that Scream's description of things is perfectly accurate.

Rick will be able to spend even more time developing Threads and he will have many more resources at his disposal. Whether you like the UBB or not (and you are certainly entitled to your opinion), we at Infopop have the largest number of customers in the message board business and that fact will really help make Threads a more influential program.

One of the major reasons I wanted to do this deal was because Rick (Scream) and I have a lot in common- including a long history developing message boards and a focus on innovation. As we talked, we realized that this deal made perfect sense for everyone.

I sense that some of the concerns being voiced are because you feel really close to Rick. I can only tell you that Rick will still be front and center with Threads and that we are determined to keep the program as exciting for each of you as it currently is.

Ted O'Neill
CEO, Infopop Corporation

Rick,

I sincerely hope that things work out for you and us. I have my personal reservations but I also understand where you are coming from and why you need to do this.

My major concern is how licensing will work. Infopop seems to charge a lot for not very much at the moment and, being a private webmaster rather than having corporate or financial backing, I don't want to see prices spiral out of control. Can we all renew our licenses this weekend?[]/testimages/icons/smile.gif[/]

Yeah - my concern is not Rick - my concern is Infopop and the way the company treats people and the astronomical amount of money they charge for nothing.

It's INfopop I won't support - not Scream. I would rather pay more here and keep Infopop out of the equation.

Sorry Ted - seen too much of Infopop's crap to be willing to go right back into that fray. And marcom stating that you are the biggest/best/whatever does not make it true.

Good luck!

I won't support Infopop. And that's not going to change.

Ted and Rick,

I think I know what everone's concern is... It isn't we arn't going to get a good product especially since we know Rick will still be the head programer...

The issue is that we have come to enjoy working with Rick and his prices are very fair and understand... Especially for those of us who run a non-profit web site and all money spent on the web site comes from our pockets..

I do think Infopop will be able to help support the w3t system... However one of the biggest advantages w3t has had... was the community support. The people who use the product are more then willing to help each other out and new people out as well. We don't want to lose that.

I know I really don't want a product where if I have questions or suggestions it takes 20 people to decide on weather to answer it or take the suggestion and grow with it... Currently it is 1 person who makes all the choices I believe... I currently work for the government... and watch all the loops they have to go through just to get an i with a dot above it is a pain in the butt.

What I would really suggest you all do before you announce this merger offically is come up with an FAQ or something explianing what is going to happen... What changes Infopop will do that will change the way the software is developed. Also come out with a reasonable pricing system.

There is alot that needs explaining cause I know alot of us who use w3t are using it cause it is the better product out there for BBS/Forum systems. I had the choice of going with UBB... But I don't like how it works... I had a choice of using YABB but... I wanted something that was good... What I am affraid of is losing this product and it as someone else has said... yes in the begining being 2 seperate product but in the end going down to 1 product leaving most of us wanting something better...

That is my 2 cents... I will continue to use w3t and will continue to call it w3t... I will watch how the merger will go... but if it does look like it goes down hill... I wont hesitate to pull out and find something else if not create something on my own. So Rick... keep up the great work and Ted... Please attempt to understand where most of us come from and realize we had a choice of going with UBB or W3T and we picked W3T...

Billy S.

Hi Datal-

Thank you for your thoughtful comments. There will definitely be a lot more information released over the next few days, which will hopefully allow everyone to evaluate the changes in full context.

Who is InfoPop's target client for UBBThreads? Same or different than the target client for UBB?

Why would the product be called Ultimate Bulletin Board Threads? If you're going to change the name, why not think up something completely different that will make it clear to everyone that it is in fact a completely different product than UBB. I think you're going to shoot down a lot of potential customers who don't like UBB or anything InfoPop puts out (many of the W3T users are of that opinion, from what I've gathered over the past few years) if you call it simply 'UBBThreads'. If the name of the product is the first impression on a potential customer, and they don't like UBB, they're probably not even going to want to hear your pitch, as the name UBBThreads suggests (to me anyway) that it's a product similar to UBB.

This is another example of the differences we fear. If a name were to be chosen for W3T, I'm pretty sure Scream would ask users to make suggestions, we'd vote on it, etc. Would you be prepared to take user suggestions or allow users to vote on a name for the forum? While you and Scream would have the final say (just as Scream would in the past), it would let you know what the people who are actually going to buy your product want to see it called. Many of us run our own websites and web businesses, and together we can understand issues relating to forums as well as any corporate strategy team.

Like I said, user input along with Scream's superlative technical skills is what made W3T what it is. We'd hate to see half of that get chopped off when InfoPop is at the helm.

I was surprised at the mail I received this morning to say the least. But I am going to remain reserved in my judgments until some kind of reaction is necessitated.

I consider myself lucky because I never had to go through a UBB phase. I never liked the board, and I came right to W3T and myself and my users have enjoyed it ever since.

I don't believe for a second Scream would make any decision to jeopardize a project which has been his baby for over 5 years. I trust him to make the best decision for himself, W3T and, most importantly, for us.

If InfoPop can provide him with a larger development staff and a shorter generation time, I'm all for it, especially if that allows the incorporation of the essential features we've been needing for a long time.

However, I like many others, am wary of the change in business practices. Regardless of how good the product is in the future, if I have to pay 100 dollars a year and still not own the product, it's simply not worth it. One of the greatest benefits of W3T as it stands is its licensing. Even if you don't want to pay anymore, that W3T v3.0 is still yours, and you're welcome to hack it up as long as you need. And that puts the power in the hands of the end-user.

And when it comes down to it, thats what W3T is all about. Power and flexibility for the admin and for the users. I'll keep my fingers crossed that when the dust settles, it will still be the product we've all come to love and support.

Will this mean that a professional gfx/layout/design person or company will be brought in to further beef up the interface/gfx? Will Rick/the community have influence into the final layout/appearance/features of the forum? Will user hacks be looked into and - if suitable - merged into the main tree? Will the release cycle get slowed down?
Hmm... I guess a faq with all questions posted in this thread is needed badly

And will this board be going away as of Monday? That may be the most important question.

I´ll never give Infopop my money! F*U*C*K* the stupid software from infopop.
Is there a way to get the rest of my paid money back? Because I don´´t want that that stupid guys get a cent from me...
Bugs are easy to find and adding new features is simple by someone like me who can PHP and SQL...

can´t realize that you did this scream :((((

Hope they paid you a good penny for the rights to wwwt Scream, this is such a superior forum compaired to others out there. []/testimages/icons/smile.gif[/]

Congrats on the last 5 years, and the making of one of the best forums out there.

Razvan-

No, the release cycle will not slow down. If anything, this will give Rick more time to develop the program. We (at Infopop) have always incorporated customer feedback into the overall design of our products, and that will continue as well.
Two examples from our own history- smilies and topic icons. Infopop was the first to add these features, but they were suggested by our users.

All I can say is... I'm surprised, to say the least... shocked is more like it... and disappointed. I'll have to see how things will be going. Otherwise, I'll definitely stick with what I have now and continue to build on it with my hacks and hacklets. Sorry, but I absolutely HATE UBB and the likes, which is why I came to W3T. If this turns out to be a merger of the two, I seriously doubt I will go with that. And the support here with Scream has been so excellent... I seriously doubt that it will be the same. Sorry.

what are you telling us????
Here are some questions... why don´t you answer??? Whats with the price? Your Ubb is so bad for me and the price is so high... NEVER... I´ll NEVER would by this kind of software (is it software or is it a real great sourcecode adventure?)

what is with the lot of addons / hacks of the users???

thats the things I´m interested in....

a very sad
Dino

Thing about the smilies... my users say they are gay looking and asked me to get rid of them... so I don't really use that part :-P

Hi Ted, my question is what is your position regarding the PHP version ? Will you still support it as Rick does now ?

Will it still keep the parallel release policy ?

Thanks.

I'm also interested in the free version, and if it will still be offered.

I realize that everyone has alot of questions. That is pretty natural with the change. It's the same as when I decided to start charging for the product a few years back. Everyone's questions will get answered. I'll be able to answer alot of these myself this evening when I get home.

I will say this now. I never would have done this deal if I didn't think it was best for everyone involved. Those of you that have been with me for some time know that current users have always been very important to me. Honestly, the main reason I did this is because I wanted more time to devote to the actual coding of the program.

I guess our biggest concern is because we feel Rick is "one of us".
When one goes to infopop.com, it does not have a personality feel at all, its a feeling of Business to customer. That is fine, it´s business afterall... but I guess we would hate to lose that personal touch w3t has.

W3T has that personal touch of a community of users (even though it has only one developer) that attracts people who like to modify/change/add/hack the forum and help in the development... We know Scream is the one behind it, so we help in. But would we help into a product that a company such as Microsoft develops? No! We wouldnt like to help in, we would just complain about what works different from how we thought it should. Now... InfoPop is not microsoft... but it does send us a much greater "business" feeling that could make us less happy to contribute.

Scream seems to say it will not change in that sense, that he will continue to request user feedback and so on... and I believe him, so I am happy and confident about that.
But what will others see? Even though Scream continues to listen to us, maybe even more... will new users really get that feeling, as to even be willing to contribute? I will continue to support it as I know Rick is behind it. But I just wonder... though in theory it might continue the same... will the users still feel as we do now? I guess it might just be psicological... but we´ve got psicological brains... I guess. []/testimages/icons/crazy.gif[/]

Anyway... I support Scream in whatever decission he makes in regards to what is best. He seems to think this is best, so its best.

I find this unexpected from the infopop people. Interesting decisions ted, i think this will make the already excellent software grow!

MTO-

Yes, I understand your concerns. Perhaps some background on me might help ease your concerns.

I wrote the UBB back in 1996. At the time the dominant message board was Matt Wright's WWWBoard (not to be confused with WWWThreads ). Like WWWThreads, the UBB was freeware for quite a long time- until the spring of 1998.

I was the sole developer of UBB until mid-way through 1999, a back-seat driver for about six months, then sole developer again until this past spring. Like Rick, for many years I was the only one programming, handling support, and all of the other duties that go with maintaining a vibrant community and business. In other words, you are talking to the choir.

It is true that Infopop is a much bigger operation now than it was a couple of years ago. It is also true that we have some higher-end services that are targeted to a more "expensive" client. We have never lost touch with our core customers, however, and if you look at our own support forums you will see a large, vibrant community.

I look forward to the challenge of winning the support and trust of each of you. I hope you will discover that I am as approachable as Rick and that Rick and I share similar sensibilities. We want one thing- to create the very best products. We also share some other values- such as treating each customer with respect, focusing on innovation and not imitation, and relentlessly improving.

I want to drop in a post a combination welcome/assurance. My place at Infopop is with OpenTopic, the hosted message board solution. I remember when OpenTopic was announced everyone worried that UBB would fall by the wayside and be ignored by Infopop. In fact, UBB flourished. These days, I'm the one under pressure to keep up with the UBB.

Over the last weeks as we talked about this move, I spent a lot of time lurking here and installing my own W3T. There is a tremendous plus for Infopop because the product *is* different and the development community is passionate about making the best product out there. Yes, there will be changes with this move. But the fundamental character of this product will stay strong. It mattered as much to as as it does to you that Scream is directly involved.

I do appreciate the anxiety about what will happen. It's natural. But I ask that you give us at Infopop a fair chance too. We're very excited about what the future holds.

I was really surprised to read this news. Sure, there had to be a change to give Rick more time for development. I hope this is the right way. I'm not sure...

I'm worried the price will change (increase of course). In the other thread I just read the licensing will change, too. For the future I only know I'm not going to pay these prices listed on the infopop site for my non-commercial use. I can't afford this.

I just read the email and I am shocked. I switched from UBB 3 years ago. I ran the free version of w3t for almost a year and then bought a license. What turned me off the most about UBB was the attitude of the moderators of their forums. There was so many flamefests nobody could get any kind of help and the moderators never helped things because they allowed it to go on. I didn't want to be involved with a community and give my hard earned dollars over to a comapany that would allow the things that happened on their support forum to happen. Granted I haven't visited the UBB forum in a long time and things might have changed, but, I still have a bad taste from some of the things that I seen over there.
Another reason I switched was that as my forum grew UBB put a strain on the server.
I'm afraid I will have to say goodbye. I just renewed my license and I will continue to use w3t until it is time to pay the yearly upgrade fee. After that I will probably switch to another forum software or finish the coding of my own forum package.
Rick, I wish you the best and I'm sure this move was in your best interest and I know you would never do anything to tear down what you have built. I am however afraid that Infopop might not hold up to the standards you set.
Thanks for the memories.

"One of the major reasons I wanted to do this deal was because Rick (Scream) and I have a lot in common- including a long history developing message boards and a focus on innovation."

Forgot to add something to this, have we, Mr O'Neill?

"I look forward to the challenge of winning the support and trust of each of you."

Carry on looking forward ... cause you aint getting my support or trust.

The loyal users have been my main reason for the continued development of the product over the past few years. Hopefully, the loyal users will stick around because I truly believe the best is yet to come[]/testimages/icons/wink.gif[/].

Thanks, it has been fun building this up to where it is now. I'm hoping this will take us to the next step. There really is so much more that can be done with the scripts as you can see from the thousands of posts on the feature request board[]/testimages/icons/wink.gif[/]

I think they should call it Scream Forums.

Blahh I just left UBB over a year ago because they wanted to charge me some ungodly amount of money to renew my liscense so I could upgrade to a product I bought and paid for.. NOT LEASED. I found much more functionality here with W3T and the price was proper for non-compiled source ware. There has to be another way.. I own a liscense and I don't want to see a its time to renew notice wheres your $275 bucks..

Bottom line - whats it gonna cost? I run 2 non profit liscenses one for a union and one for kids K-6 wrestling - I need to know the bottom line. I notice there seems to be no talk of it so I assume it will increase if I choose to stick with this software?

How Much?