Someone steals your design and claims it to be theirs? Here is my site http://hacks2go.hypermart.net and here is this other kid's site named Chillie http://www.memoram.com/nc/ubb . I'm weird cuz I named my Iframe frame and that css looks familiar.... and I'm stumped how his layout got on my team's site 2 weeks b4 his was made...

<font size=1>[This message has been edited by Ace Dogg (edited September 15, 2000).]</font>

whats even more ironic is the fact that when i was modifying Ace Dogg's origional version of the script above i made a few errors, and it looks like he has the exact same ones in his scripting. They were the kind of errors you overlook, like an extra font command here and there. I checked his source, and our source at the same time. He defiantely copied.

man, what a cunt.

Yeah, I've heard these kind of things all the time. Only problem is, no matter what kind of copyright notices, threats of death or anything, internet copyright is murky, if not complete muck.

I mean, think about it in the simplest terms:

<hr>
John creates a webpage. The only tags in it are body tags and the line "This page Copyright 2000 John".
<hr>
Bob creates a webpage. The only tags in it are body tags and the line "This page Copyright 2000 Bob".
<hr>

Who owns the rights to that particular design? Some people say that each person owns the page they created. But in that case, you're screwed because you cannot really PROVE that he did not create his, no matter how similar they are.

But, you can try. If this is really important to you, start complaining, to people that can actually do something. Your webhost, his/her webhost, the FBI (or whoever does copyright stuff).

These days, copyright notices serve little purpose except a warning, and then only one that can be backed up by large companies.

Not all I just said is completely true, a lot of copyright issues are being resolved lately, but right now for the small time website owner who gets screwed like that, well, it's not looking good.

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-david
<FONT size="1">I wish the milkman would deliver my milk.
In the morning.</FONT s>

I heard you had to earn copyrights but I put it on for detail and so the people that don't know don't use my design... Man I wish I never took out that part that said **-- Design by Ace Dogg --> or something along that line otherwise I would have proved it.


O and I was just told if you go here http://nintendocontrol.hypermart.net/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi and look above the copyright it says don't steal its bad... So that confuses me....

<font size=1>[This message has been edited by Ace Dogg (edited September 15, 2000).]</font>

When making my site, I was concerned with copyrighting. Not to sound egotistical or anything, but I'm rather proud of my site design (http://liquid.jaminnet.com/cgi/Ultimate.cgi). Anyway, I worked for a lawyer over the summer, and figured i'd take advantage of that fact to ask her some questions. I can't spout it off verbatim, but here is the gist of what I learned...

Anything you make on your computer is copyrighted to you the instant it is saved. Copyrights (and trademarks, btw) do not HAVE to be registered. If you register the material, it makes it a lot easier to prove your ownership of it. However, registration carries a fairly hefty fine, so unless youv'e got a nice sized corporation backing you, it's best to go unregistered and take your chances.

The copyright symbol (©) and the trademark symbol (™) may be used freely, without any registrations. However, if you want to use the Registered Trademark symbol (®), it is illegal to use unless the material in question is, in fact, registered with the U.S. Trademark and Patent Office. Incedentally, it is also illegal to use "Corporation," "Inc.," "Corp.," and other variances on the word "Incorporated" if you are not actually legally incorporated. Federal crime. Not just state.

There is a site run by the Feds that lets you report copyright and trademark infringement, stuff like that. Seems to me like I found the addy for it somewhere in these very forums, but it has slipped my memory now.

I know this probably doesn't help you much with your problem. But it's some info that some people might be interested in knowing. Just thought I'd share what little knowledge I have.

---Skorpion

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</FONT s>

You are really missing the point.

Whats to keep me from downloading your page that says "design by ace dogg" and changing it to say "design by evil-empire in cooperation with Janet reno"? Hmmmmm?

What I'm saying is that copyright statements on web pages mean NOTHING. I mean, keep putting them on your pages, it does help (a little), but it doesn't stop anyone really. Only people who can hire lawyers and such can really back copyright statements up.

The only medium on the web (thats used widely) that can be protected and proven that it is yours are images. Not only can you save images in their original format (.psd for me, before I export to .gif), but you can also add virtually undectable digimarcs (that name pops into my head, I don't if its really called that). To add those, you simply have to register at the company's website, and add that little bit to all your images. It's extremly hard to cover up or hide that mark, and it can survive multiple scannings/printings (or so I've heard).

But web pages? You don't have much of a chance. I mean, seriously, in about 5 minutes I could have a replica of this thread installed on my server, along with all the images (thats including upload time on a 56k modem!). CGI scripts are a little more difficult, but it would probably be easy enough to steal one. Stealing is easy.



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-david
<FONT size="1">I wish the milkman would deliver my milk.
In the morning.</FONT s>

well, thats basically what I meant skorpion, you just put it in a more optomistic light.

Federal crime? Really? So I can't say my name is David Inc.? damn.

Anyway, the thing about copyrighted-once-it's-saved goes back to the hypothetical John/Bob thing. Even with all the coincidences (errors), who's to say who owns what?

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-david
<FONT size="1">I wish the milkman would deliver my milk.
In the morning.</FONT s>

Good point, E-E! Digimarc is actually the biggest company that makes plugins for what you're talking about, which is called water marks. Similar to the "original document" thing that you can see on the back of about 99% of all checks now, and if you hold up one of the new U.S. bills of any denomination of $5 or higher, you can see the president's face water-marked to the right of his face. Woudln't it be nice if you could watermark the whole webpage like that?

---Skorpion

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</FONT s>

Ya my image maker has that digimark thing on it but I dun use it since I have to register my stuff(note I mean like give them my info and **** I actually bought the item at staples for 50 bucks).. So I just make images and nothing else..

And I know people can steal your design but I also know how to get back at them... By telling everyone that he stole it gives him a bad reputation and the site crashes and burns if it hasn't already....

<font size=1>[This message has been edited by Ace Dogg (edited September 15, 2000).]</font>

To the best of my knowledge, HTML is NOT copyrightable and never has been. Your graphics, text and other media are. Think about it... there are various books and magazines that have close to the same layout... but the media on those pages is different. (There are many UBB's out there.. if no one changes anything... is everyone infringing on someone elses copyright because they have the same layout?)

so in short...html css stuff like that is copyrightable, BUT pics text(umm...i would like a better explenation of that...), and other media, so in this case ace dogg only has like 1 graphic...thats the bullet, now this other ubb hacking site uses a differn't bullet...so there doing nothing illegal, right?

agree what will it be if it is copyrighted by someone?

< html> = 10000$
< /html> = 8500$

< html> & < /html> = 12000$ buy both and pay less

and Ace Dogg; your site uses a simple table layout as this site, so there is nothing original...

<font size=1>[This message has been edited by jeologic (edited September 16, 2000).]</font>

*sniff*[whiney kid mode]but I put an IFrame in there so it isn't the same and the UBB doesn't show in the IFrame... and I want that kid to stop using my design[/whiney kid mode]

<font size=1>[This message has been edited by Ace Dogg (edited September 16, 2000).]</font>

IFrames SUCK and should NEVER be used in any HTML design...EVER.

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Da Wannabe Cannuck

Andy Tomaka
YaBB Developement Team
AndyTomaka@yabb.org
http://www.yabb.org

LOL... I was going to bring up that the layout and bullets were basically the same layout that is here... but didn't. Thanks jeologic for pointing that out! About the text... I meant if you write something other than the basic stuff. Basic words cannot be copyrighted.. like REGISTER, NEWS, FORUMS, SEARCH.... but a tutorial that you've written yourself CAN be and is copyrighted. There are graphics that are public domain... the copyright has been given up and anyone can freely use those graphics. But if you go to someone's site and take a graphic, photo, flash file, shockwave, midi, wav, etc. that they have created and use it, THAT is copyright infringement & illegal. One other thing, sites are not required to put a copyright statement on their pages. An author automatically holds a copyright on his work regardless if it's stated or not. (most sites put it on as a friendly reminder.)

BTW, I'm not an attorney and I'm only passing on information I've picked up here and there. I do have a good attorney but if I'm wrong and someone has other information... please share.

dont think so. iframe is a cool and simple tag.
But only supported by ie & ns6

heh who says I didn't make the I frame temporary?

Umm by now I have gotten over it and don't need any explaination anymore I was over it when I was told the first time ... No need to yell I wasn't the one throwing the fit, bondman was.... I just have to deal with this stuff as the UBBhacker of that site.

Yea ace dogg, you keep talking, I have seen "your" design 3 times already today that look identical to yours with different colors. These days, there are so many web sites that no design is oriogional and as mentioned before, HTML and css can't be copyrighted, only images and **** are so you keep talking about origionality and **** and about my site getting a bad reputation and

Yea, my site isn't even open, I'm trying differnt designs to see what works the best

MAN!!!! This kid chillie thinks just because he is friends with a member of our UBB team he can have our news.cgi script that was made by us.... Going too far I guess..... also someone told me that his UBB at http://nintendocontrol.hypermart.net/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi was illegal... but I dunno how to check it. Bah I dun even care anymore.. All I care about is that he doesn't steal our cgi scripts.

<font size=1>[This message has been edited by Ace Dogg (edited September 16, 2000).]</font>

Ace Dogg, if you've written those scripts you own the copyright. No one can use them unless you give permission to do so. If you've purchased the script and someone else has 'copied' it... it's illegal and you should inform the company or author of the script. If it's freeware/shareware that is available as a download on the www... there is little you can do.

Now can everyone stop complainin' please?