I feel I must express my utmost disappointment with the ubb.threads program itself and in this web site as well.<br /><br />I have ran a ubb.classic board as a hobby of mine (here for over 2 years. The main function of the board is to create an environment where kids can trade and sell their pokemon cards relatively safe.<br /><br />I upgraded the ubb.classic site 3 times in two years, each time using ubbdev.com to locate/install/troubleshoot all the hacks I used. By far, the two most popular hacks as I see it are:<br />1. Avatars (normal members pick from a selection, custom for admins/mods<br />2. Custom Titles w/ Stars<br /><br />Currently, the forums have 24,000 members, 58 forums, 250,000+ total posts. Our maximum user's online record hit 511 on the 1st of this month..<br /><br />Now, I have been told many times that ubb.classic was never meant for more than 20k members and the slowly increasing flow of emails from members experiencing odd errors convinced me that our next upgrade was rapidly approaching.<br /><br />After (admittedly not too much) research it seemed clear ubb.threads was my answer. It took just a little time to find threadsdev.com which, given my profession (internet design and marketing), is not a good sign, but I am here nonetheless.<br /><br />After checking out most of this site and ALL of the V6 thread development posts, I was convinced that the additional features would absolutely WOW my members and everyone would be happy<br /><br />I upgraded from ubb.classic 6.3.1 to ubb.threads 6.0.3 this past Tuesday (3 days ago) and honestly, I am regretting every bit of it.<br /><br />For the record, I own the server my site is hosted on, its co-located with my ISP and I only have about 35 sites hosted on it. Unix Apache PHP MYsql etc..<br /><br />The installation of ubb.threads itself went without flaw and I finished in about 10-15 minutes. I spent more time uploading the files than anything else.<br /><br />The import process however proved MUCH more buggy than anyone indicated. I have imported my site twice now, and the results are the same. This is a short list of what was lost in the import:<br />- ALL Pm's were lost<br />- 1 forum was imported its completely empty. <br />- multiple messages from ALL forums it appears are missing, I dont know how many.<br />- moderators have their Title set to Moderator, and they are shown as mods when viewing forum x, but have no mod powers.<br />- @4,200 members are (missing?) ubb.classic said I had 23,700 members, and currently justdave's iip4.3 (that I installed last nite) agrees. The Main Index page says we only have 19,370 however.<br /><br />In short, It could have went a lot worse. I figured most of these issues were easily fixed. I hoped the new features of UBBT would make it worth the while.<br /><br />I opened the new UBBT tuesday night at around 8pm EST and the hate mail has yet to crest, much less even slow in pace as I thought it would once the "upgrade shock" wore off.<br /><br />And that brings me to the 'New Features'.... The number one question in my in-box right now is "What new features?". The Favorite Forum and Favorite thread features in particular appear to have been shoved into the bottom of the page as an afterthought. How can a text link that says "Favorite" in 8pt type even aqequately convey what its there for in the first place?<br /><br />Unfortunately, I dont think the shock is going to wear off. There appears to be absolutely NO supporting documentation on how to use any of the features a member sees in 'My Home' nor explainations of any of the options in their profile. What I mean by this is there is no explaination of anything for normal members within the FAQ page, nor on the "My Home" page either.<br /><br />Ubbthreads minus any addons is truly a let down as far as my members are concerned. Most are referring to this as a "downgrade"<br /><br />Addons! Aside from the forums bursting at the seams, my second biggest reason for all these upgrades was all these cool ass addons! Especially JustDave's IIP4.3, which just knocked my socks off! It more than makes up for severe shortage of overall addons/hacks that can be found here.<br /><br />Which brings me finally to my disappointment in this web site. As I mentioned, I am very familar with ubbdev.com and my criticism is derived by comparing you to them. I don't mean this to be insultive, I simply wish to express my direct experiences in all this so that you might see from my point of view.<br /><br />First off, pick SOME type of organizational structure! When I came to this site for the first time I went immediately to the Finished and Beta Mods forums to identify as quickly as I could what mods were available.<br /><br />Browsing both of these forums, I found it nearly impossible to figure out what all the addons were. Please remember I am completely unfamilar with ubb.threads. What I found were a lot of posts that gave almost no description of what there modification even is! This post is a great example of what I am talking about.<br /><br />I am completely unable to tell What this Calendar does, what features it has, what version ubbt is it compatible with. Admittedly, not ALL the mods lacked this info, however the many messages that lack any pertitent made it very hard.<br /><br />It wasnt until yesterday that I found the IIP4.3 addon, located not in the Finished or Beta mod forums but instead in the Forum Design Integration forum.. It seems to be the only addon located there...<br /><br />As it turns out, I cant use IIP anyway. With such a large database of posts and members, IIP is taking as long as 3-4 minutes to generate the Entrance Page. I began removing pals one at a time to try to come up with something that would load and am left with this<br /><br />-----------------------<br />Ok I posted all this only to relate my personal experiences with both UBBT and this web site. I do this as constructive criticism only. I greatly repect all the members of threadsdev.com who dedicate their time, money and/or energy on things I am here enjoying for free as well those at Infopop. Please be assured I did not intend to offend anyone with this post. Should I have done so, I apologize.<br /><br />Michael

Welcome Michael <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /><br /><br />Dig into the IIP thread, I think page 17, has some things that can be done to have most pal boxes remain while cutting down on the amount of server load/load time.<br /><br />The old ubb.classic import script does leave lots to be desired, the newer one is much improved and should be out for public beta testing in the next couple of days. Even so, with the older script, you shouldn't have lost any pm's/members/or posts. You might open a support ticket at infopop to get that straightened out.<br /><br />We are still a relatively new community regarding modifications... ubbdev has a couple year headstart on us, so things will not be where they are in terms of "finished" status, but I can tell you we are ahead of where ubbdev was 8 months into its existence <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /><br /><br />Anyways, good constructive criticism, we are working toward a lot of what you wrote about.<br /><br />Anything else while we are on the subject?<br />

check page 17 and the top of 18 for experiments I did for IIP on a site about the same size as yours.

I understand what its like to announce an upgrade, then something doesn't go right and your inbox is full of harsh comments. It is a shame things didn't work out as well as you had planned <img src="/forum/images/icons/frown.gif" alt="" /> <br /><br />The problems you encountered are almost entirely due to the import script and not the actual threads program itself. After my upgrade way back when threads first came out, yeah there were some issues but once the forums were up and running and users had a week ro so to get used to the new look they all loved it along with the features. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> <br /><br />I think if you get your users your lost and PMs and stuff back and imported corectly you will find the program is very fast and your users will love it <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

Welcome.<br /><br />I'm sorry that you've had so much trouble.<br /><br />Users are never happy about change... no matter if it's good or bad... I've learned that it's impossible to keep everyone happy.<br /><br />Yes, I've also heard many a story about the functions lacking in the import script from Classic. I know that Infopop is working very hard at getting everything "in sync". But sadly, that won't help you now. Hopefully we can.<br /><br />I started a thread this week on the organization of our mods and hacks. I proposed that the Beta and Finished forums continue for the development of the mods.... but that there be a "library" forum or something to download from. The ability in version 6.1 to change the attachments will make it easier for one post to contain the most current up to date..completely bug fixed file at that moment.<br /><br />We have talked about the ability to remove the "edit post" limitation in that forum.... so that the thread starter could go and update their files without mod or admin help.<br /><br />I hope this can take off.... I think it's great the way the hacks develop here. The threads discussing it really does help to the development of the finished mod... but if you haven't been keeping up, and you're trying to find the most correct version... it's tough. <br /><br />IIP is tough to find the most current... that thread will soon hold a record for it's length. Dave is working on a new version which will be template based and use the language files. I know he's been working on ways to make load times faster on especaially large boards. Yours sounds like it fits that situation.<br /><br />I think this site has improved alot since I found it... and I think it will only get better. There has already been more consistency in how people are posting hacks and writing their instructions.<br /><br />Hopefully if you can ride it out with your users... you'll be able to get your board to do all you need it to do.... and more. <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

Also as per new users figuring out all the features.... we have had a thread going this week on how easily new users can adapt. <br /> <br />I started a forum on my site for FAQ's which Scream recommended today that we perhaps start a library here for FAQ's and such. <br /> <br />I also have a forum on my site called Maximize the Measurection Experience in which I post tips, tricks and instructions on how the features work. <br />It allows my users (most of which are non-tekkie) to slowly learn all the features. <br /> <br />My post this week was "Making Use of the Post Reminders Feature". Many of my users had no clue about this. I think this idea has worked well at my site. <br /> <br />Perhaps, per Rick's suggestion, we could write some simple documentation like that. People could import it into their boards if they wish... or they could copy and paste select posts as needed. <br /> <br />Just an idea for room to go based on your observations. <br /> <br /> <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sorry for jumping around so much in my initial post... My wife was yelling at me to "get off my butt and go to the store with her before the sale ended blah bah blah blah" and it was a bit difficult to concentrate <img src="/forum/images/icons/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <br /><br />First let me say thanks for all the replies and PM's thus far. If your goal here is a community youv'e certainly got some fine members to build it on.<br /><br />I would also like to apologize for my ignorance up front. I wish I had more time to read through the site and familarize myself with both UBBT as well as this web site before I posted here. Im taking a crash course on both as I go along.<br /><br />From some of the messages I have received I realized I made a tremendous amount of assumptions and am now suffering the usual consequences for doing so <img src="/forum/images/icons/blush.gif" alt="" /> <br /><br />When I bought my first copy of ubb it was the only product infopop had. Other than to download the latest version I rarely visited infopop's site. So when ubb.threads came out I naturally assumed that it was developed in-house based on the classic. Most of my confusion and disappointment stem from this assumption.<br /><br />I read a comparison checklist that showed compared ubb.classic and ubb.threads side by side showing the difference in features. It is pretty clear to me however that these two products couldnt be any more different. The upgrade from classic to UBBT was equivalent to being thrown into a completely alien environment without a flashlight.<br /><br />I am confident once this shock wears off and people actually learn all the features everything will be great. The trouble is they are thinking of ubb.classic when they begin looking for the "new features" when essentially everything they are looking at is new by comparision. They cant see the forest for all the trees..<br /><br />I posted a few topics telling people to "Just click the 'My Home' button and look at all the stuff you can do!" The actual process of populating the "My Home" page is completely counterintuitive however and most members are simply confused. I touched on this a bit earlier regarding the location of the Favorite links on the forum and topic pages being hidden as well as the overall lack of explanation on how to use any of the features.<br /><br />Joshpet, thanks so much for your efforts creating the "Maximize the MEASURECTION" forum/posts. With your permission, I would like to duplicate this forum as well as the posts contained therein verbatim as a temporary quick fix for my members. Several times over the past few days I had considered writing "how-to" posts just like yours but was never able to overcome the feelings of dread that arose at the thought <img src="/forum/images/icons/crazy.gif" alt="" /><br /><br />I have been talking with JustDave only briefly concerning IIP and that his new release would be for this beta version so before I can do anything, I have to upgrade my site! And that brings about my newest dillema:<br /><br />Should I abandon my current ubb.threads (delete it), install a fresh copy of ubbt6.1 and use the new import tool? Doing this NOW would mean I only lose about 3 days worth of posts etc.. that were made right after the upgrade. The longer I wait the more Im going to lose... OR should I stick with what I have and just do an upgrade of my existing ubbt6.0.3 ? ? ? ?<br /><br /><br />

Hi AllenAyres! Glad to see you here! I knew you were very active at ubbdev.com but had no idea of this web site's existence until a few days ago. I am confident you have made yourself invaluable here as well. <br /><br />I had started working to resolve the lack of feature documentation with a pop-up help system I thought would be perfect for the site. I have a lot of ideas about a lot of things actually <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" /> and would be happy to discuss any of them with you at your convenience.<br /><br />Additionally, I would like to offer my help to you and JustDave by providing you either access to any of my ubb.classic or ubb.thread sites to further your efforts. Alternately, if you ever need help testing your mods under high load conditions, please dont hesitate to ask.<br /><br />I think you are familar with several of the larger/high traffic ones. The co-located server is: Apache/1.3.22 (Unix) PHP/4.1.2 FrontPage/5.0.2.2510 mod_ssl/2.8.5 OpenSSL/0.9.6c" with phpmyadmin access to the mysql server<br /><br />Although my initial reaction was to abandon threads completely and run back to classic with my tail between my legs, I think my own "upgade shock" is wearing off and soon ill be upgrading everything to UBBT (God help me) <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" /> <br /><br /><br />

You are welcome to copy anything you see on my site.<br />Perhaps one of these days I should make some generic versions of the "how to's" and post them here.<br /><br />You may also be interested in my Frequently Asked Questions-Site Help forum... to help your members (and you) with any technical issues that you encounter.<br /><br />So please, help yourself to anything you need. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey Michael <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /><br /><br />Yes, the change to threads can be a bit shocking at first, if your users are used to ubb. To soften the shock, you might consider using our "posting pages ubb.skin", found in our template forum. They mimick pretty closely the exact look and feel of ubb.classic and may make the transition period easier on you.<br /><br />If you really lost all those posts and members and pm's in the import process, then yes, I would recommend re-doing the import using the new import script and importing into threads 6.1 pb1 - it's stable enough for production sites I believe, and the importer is much improved... the official announcement can be found here:<br />http://community.infopop.net/2/OpenTopic...mp;r=8773020176<br /><br />Stress-testing new stuff with you is a good idea, we have another site too, but don't wanna pick on them all the time <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /><br /><br />Ask if/when you have more questions. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

webwolfe,<br /><br />I also am deeply troubled by all of your dissatisfaction.<br /><br />You have pointed out some very key issues here, some that I see repeatedly, some not. Please, let me touch on them and respond to them.<br /><br />"So when ubb.threads came out I naturally assumed that it was developed in-house based on the classic."<br /><br />I agree that we do not do a good enough job highlighting the fact that this ISN'T UBB.classic rewritten in php and running on a MySQL back end. I do think though that if we put Try It! on this page in one more spot it would be overbearing though. <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /> Nonetheless we hear your sentiment echoed a lot and take it to heart. Look for changes to that page to make it more clear that UBB.threads is not at all like UBB.classic.<br /><br />"The upgrade from classic to UBBT was equivalent to being thrown into a completely alien environment without a flashlight."<br /><br />In truth this disturbs me most of all. I like to think our documentation to be top flight. To have our documentation referenced to being compared to being tossed into an alien environment without a flashlight is deeply troubling indeed. We review the docs continually and gladly accept feedback on them from users, new to, or experienced with the product. Please feel free to email me (dave@infopop.com) with whatever you felt deficient in them. That can truly help the people that follow behind you. Sometimes we're so close to the product that we don't see what's missing. If the documentation is sub par let Infopop hear from you. Let's make them better. Tell us what we're missing and where we are missing it.<br /><br />Please do though, direct your Member's attention to the User's Guide. Post links to it or quote it. That's what it is there for. Your Members will probably not seek it out themselves, and there are a lot of good hints for them.<br /><br />Next, I do understand the difficulties in the importer. Wish you had filled out a trouble ticket on that, we could have helped you along the way. We truly understand the difficulties in upgrading. We do a lot of them.<br /><br />As of just a few minutes ago we have released an upgraded version of the importer. It currently is only for the 6.1 beta version and while the script has been tested quite a bit it too is beta.<br /><br />That said, it is a long way ahead of the importer for 6.0.x. You'll find no more empty forums, of that you can be sure. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> My announcement regarding the updated importer is posted right here. Any and all feedback as far as this importer is gladly accepted. Remeber though, that these ARE different product and some things just simply cannot be translated. Nonetheless we are importing a lot more data, and doing a much better job it it. Let me take this opportunity, if you don't mind, to put in a word of thanks for your Admin, Allen Ayres for doing test imports until his eyes were glazing over. <img src="/forum/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Thanks AA. Allen did so many imports that his site was practically filling the database of it's own volition by the time we were done with him. A few other folks were in the same boat. <img src="/forum/images/icons/cool.gif" alt="" /> <br /><br />At this time I am not sure if the importer for 6.0.x will be updated. 6.1 is looking really good at this point. Bug reports are minimal. We may get 6.1 out so soon it doesn't make reworking the 6.0.x importer worth allocating the time for. I'll know more by mid next week and I have not ruled out doing it if 6.1 looks to be a while yet.<br /><br />As far as the disparate quality between UBBdev and this site, Threadsdev let me just make mention of the fact that UBBDev has, as you know, been around a loong time. This site is still very fledgling and hasn't the time or the volunteer level to yet stretch it's wings out and soar. It's made a lot of strides in a short time. The number of UBB.classic owners still numbers many many thousands over UBB.threads, but more and more .classic owners are discovering .threads and this site.. Give it more time, I think we'll all be proud what these .threads owners can show us. <img src="/forum/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" /><br /><br /><br />I haven't made a post this long in months! Excuse me please!<br />

I've been thinking about having a tip of the week or something like that for a long time and have written one or two descriptions on some of the features. Unfortunately I haven't done anything more since I'm too lazy. =P But I do think this is a good idea even though I wouldn't be able to use the english descriptions on my own site.

All I can add to these comments are these two tidbits of advice to a new UBBT admin:<br /><br />1. Keep pushing the FAQ to your users, as it does answer many questions and will save you time.<br /><br />2. Read all the way through any hack thread on this site before you try to install it. This will ensure you know all the same info we do, and that you get the most current version if it has been updated since the initial post.<br /><br />That's it, have fun with UBBT <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

I installed a new copy of ubbt6.1b1 last night and used the new importer.<br /><br />It has incorrectly imported about 1/3 of the boards into the incorrect categories. It also imported around 40,000 pm's and I dont know how many buddy lists, all of which are inaccesible to the members. (All members say they have 0 pm's and no one in their addess books.<br /><br />I also ran into a bug with doeditboard.php that would not allow me to change any forum. I put in a bug report on that.<br /><br />I m now going to put in a infopop support ticket.. Just wanted to let you know.<br /><br />THanks

<img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> I just tested it myself on a new install of 6.1 with similar results.... yep, it's a beta script. Hopefully should be tweaked by tomorrow <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mondays are rough around here for me. I might not have an answer to this until Tuesday afternoon. <img src="/forum/images/icons/frown.gif" alt="" />

I cant keep opening the site, letting people post for three days and then deleting the whole thing on the off chance the import tool is going to work.<br /><br />Will it be possible for me just to import the PM's and buddy lists?<br /><br />

OK I have run into two more problems. One I can duplicate here on this site.. <br /> <br /> <br />Problem 1 <br />-------- <br />I have a help button on my site that I wanted to link straight to my Help category(#8). I assumed the URL would be: <br />http://www.pokemon-trading-cards.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?Cat=8 <br /> <br />When I use this URL and click on any of the 4 forums therein I start getting SQL errors <br />SQL ERROR: Unable to do_query: SELECT Bo_Number,Bo_Title,Bo_Keyword,Bo_Cat,Bo_CatName,Bo_Sorter FROM w3t_Boards WHERE (Bo_Read_Perm LIKE '%-3-%' OR Bo_Read_Perm LIKE '%-1-%') AND (Bo_Cat = ) ORDER BY Bo_Cat,Bo_Sorter <br />You have an error in your SQL syntax near ') ORDER BY Bo_Cat,Bo_Sorter ' at line 5 <br /> <br />I noticed that after I used the above url, the cat=8 followed me everywhere, including when I altered my display preferences to show Categories only on the main index. <br /> <br />When I did this and then clicked the main index button from the My Home page, it sent me to <br />http://www.pokemon-trading-cards.net/ubbthreads/categories.php?Cat=8 <br /> <br />where I get more SQL errors <br /> <br />On every page you get these errors, if you change the cat=8 to cat= in the url, the errors go away. <br /> <br />OK, so I was surfing both my site and this one and noticed that in the urls it is always 'cat=' so I wanted to see what url the programming used.. which brings me to <br /> <br />problem 2. <br />---------- <br />I found the url I should be using is this: <br />http://www.pokemon-trading-cards.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?Cat=&C=8 <br /> <br />The problem is, for this url to work, you must be logged in AND have your display preferences set to display categories only on the home page <br /> <br />I am able to duplicate this here on threadsdev.com with this url: <br /> <br />http://www.threadsdev.com/threads/php/ubbthreads.php?Cat=&C=2 <br /> <br />It does not matter if I am logged in here or not, when I go to the above url I see all categories and all forums. <br /> <br />If I edit my preferences here to show categories only, the above url works and I only see cat2 and related forums <br />

Can you please post bugs you find on the beta version bug forum at http://community.infopop.net? Thanks. It makes it a lot easier for Rick and I to find them that way.

Oh, I posted two replies to the importer trouble ticket. Still working on the rest of it.