Ted,<br /><br />I am wondering if you would address the issue of censorship in your forums. I am quite concerned when I read accounts like this which seem to indicate that free discussion is discouraged and people are banned for even bringing up problems like bugs.<br /><br />Since you did not include this in your FAQ, and it does seem to be a frequently asked question, would you please address the issue of censorship in your forums? Specifically as it relates to:<br /><br />1. Complaints about the product.<br />2. Complaints about service.<br />3. Discussion of bugs and/or other problems with the software.<br />4. Discussion of difficulty of installation.<br />5. Discussion of, and/or comparison to, competing products.<br /><br />I am asking for your response here, in a forum that has allowed free discussion of all these issues, since I fear that, once these forums are moved to your site, this type of question may not be welcome. As you reply, please be specific about each of the 5 points I listed. I look forward to your response.

Just as an FYI - the "official" code hacking website, being set up by the crew at UBBDev, myself, and a few members of this community (and anyone else that wants to lend a hand), will have a full area for the Perl version.<br /><br />I am personally saddened that the Perl version is no longer going to be kept up to date, but I'm just a little biased towards Perl anyway. ;)<br /><br />*Edit* Clarificaiton on community involvement

We ban users from the support forums for four reasons:<br /><br />1) Disrupting behavior<br />2) Extreme profanity<br />3) Trolling<br />4) General idiocy, owning a pirated board, etc.<br /><br />IIRC, we have only banned a small handful of users under the first three... the fourth has a much wider range of people banned, but I doubt that many would object to their removal. ;)<br /><br />I don't know the exact circumstances of Marty's ban, and will not speculate on it... it does sound out of the ordinary however. I know of only two users banned for "reporting bugs", both of which were outright trolls, attempting to directly cause trouble by posting a major security issue after we had repeatedly stated that it was being taken care of.<br /><br />Directly answering your points... we have no issues with almost anything, as long as it is not a direct troll (i.e. a post made to encourage negative responses), flamebait (i.e. started to make an argument), etc... Product vs Product debates have been sort of discouraged for quite some time, as we have found that they almost always degrade into a flamefest. This might not be an issue here, on these forums, as there is a much smaller community base and a might tighter sense of comrodary (sp)... but we used to get John Q. User walking up, starting an argument, then never saying anything again.<br /><br />If it can be kept civil, such debates are just fine. When they get personal, start to insult products (anyones, not just ours), people, companies, etc, the topic gets locked. If the issue is brought up again and again, the person is told to knock it off, and usually banned shortly thereafter - after they fail to stop.<br /><br />We had a product vs product debate the other day on UBBForums. It was going quite well until people started insulting each other and the products involved. End of discussion...<br /><br />"Censorship" is relative. If I came into your house and started screaming and yelling at you, breaking your furniture, and doing other nasties, wouldn't you want to kick me out of your house?<br /><br />If you have concerns about this, please feel free to ask for clarification directly, either here, on Community itself, or via email to any of the available Infopop employees. We'll be glad to help clear things up.<br /><br />We are not an evil entity, and are saddened that many feel this way. We want to do whatever is nessecary to clear things up.<br /><br />Thank you.

What is the difference between opentopic and wwwthreads? Is there a possiblity of wwwthreads (soon to be ubbthreads) becoming opentopic?<br /><br />As a former Administrator of UBB, but transitioning to WWWThreads because of additional functionality, changing the name of WWWThreads to UBBThreads is a step backwards. <br /><br />Ed

OpenTopic is a totally different product running on a totally different platform using a totally different idea. ;)<br /><br />OpenTopic uses Java & Oracle in a clustered environment to do some really insane stuff, i.e. millions of pageviews a day. It uses XML & XSLT to perform magic with data... very powerful stuff.<br /><br />Threads is "just" PHP & MySQL (and whatever else it can be manipulated to run on ;))<br /><br />(And no, I am not touching the name issue, sorry. []/testimages/icons/wink.gif[/])

Trolling?? Can you please explain this term so everyone has a clear understanding of what you all mean by it... When I think of trolling is just someone who wonders around without saying anything... So you all would ban me if I followed the forums but never said anything...

By the term I know from visiting slashdot, a post is considered a troll when it's only purpose is to cause a fight. For instance, on slashdot, if you post LINUX SUCKS! WINDOWS RULES!. This is considered a troll because you know what type of posts are going to follow[]/testimages/icons/wink.gif[/].

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Trolling?? Can you please explain this term so everyone has a clear understanding of what you all mean by it... When I think of trolling is just someone who wonders around without saying anything... So you all would ban me if I followed the forums but never said anything... <p><hr></blockquote><p><br /><br />A person who reads a forum without participating is called a "Lurker," not a troll. Trolling is completely different, has a long history in internet lore, and is clearly defined:<br /><br />http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/lurker.html<br />http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/troll.html<br />

*edit* Uh, well, ankh beat me to linking to the Jargon File... oh well. ;)<br /><br />I use troll in the classical sense. See: http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/troll.html<br /><br />The Slashdot trolls are practically nothing compared to *REAL* trolls. ;)<br /><br />What you think of trolling is what I'm used to calling lurking (from "lurking in the shadows")... and if we banned everyone who just hung around without doing anything, the forums would be a very empty place.

OK Troll = Someone looking for flames...<br /><br />Thanks

Or in general looking to start a fight, annoy people, or cause trouble.

Charles--<br /><br />I have been doing e-mail for 10 years or so, and cannot recall having seen that IIRC abbreviation before.<br /><br />Would you kindly define this term?

IIRC -> If I Recall Correctly. I use it quite a bit, as I often do NOT recall correctly.

On Charles comments about the UBB support forums: If you spend any time on the UBB forums, you'll see that almost all questions are answered by a moderator. There's very little sense of "community" involvement, which is one of W3T's biggest advantages, IMO. I'm not sure why the situation has developed that way, but that is the way it is. OTOH, I appreciate that the UBB forums moderators are quite ruthless in keeping the forums orderly, for example, deleting the content of messages that tag on to another message inappropriately. I'm sure this annoys some people, but when you are looking for support or information and don't have a lot of time to waste, it helps a great deal.<br /><br />I think, however, that the decision to support W3T on Open Topic is really dumb. A demo baord is never a substitute for a fully functioning, heavily used support forum for checking out the features of a script. And imagine trying to explain to someone features that they can't see in front of them. It also seems like poor marketing to me, as it makes W3T appear to be an stepchild product.

"but that is the way it is. OTOH"<br /><br />WTH is OTOH?<br /><br />First it was IIRC now it's OTOH.<br /><br />I mean WTF is OTOH? This is beginning to be a real PIA!<br /><br />LOL<br />

OTOH = on the other hand.<br /><br />Now... WTH does WTH mean??? []/testimages/icons/wink.gif[/] []/testimages/icons/wink.gif[/]

re: I think, however, that the decision to support W3T on Open Topic is really dumb.<br />Uff! Support in Open Topic rather than UBBThreads?????<br />Is that really the case??????<br />I hope not! It would be stupid, and not only that, it would mean a great loss.<br /><br />- I have discovered many bugs while visiting these support boards.<br />- I have come up with many suggestions/ideas while visiting these boards.<br /><br />Now... if we arent going to be using the UBBThreads for support... it is my big guess that I will be around much less. I enjoyed doing testing here, seeing what needs improvement before I upgrade, testing more... knowing that my boards work the same way. To be honest... I visit these boards much more than I visit my own boards, thatīs why most of my suggestions, ideas, found bugs, and so on, have come up while at these support boards. If we will no longer be using these boards... I would bet I come up with less suggestions, less ideas, and so on... is that good??? []/testimages/icons/mad.gif[/]

"OTOH = on the other hand.<br /><br />Now... WTH does WTH mean???"<br /><br />Ha!<br /><br />WTH = What The He!!<br /><br />

*grin* Just playin' along. []/testimages/icons/smile.gif[/]

> - I have discovered many bugs while visiting these support boards.<br />> - I have come up with many suggestions/ideas while visiting these boards.<br />> I enjoyed doing testing here, seeing what needs improvement before I upgrade, testing<br />> more... knowing that my boards work the same way. To be honest... I visit these boards<br />> much more than I visit my own boards, thatīs why most of my suggestions, ideas, found<br />> bugs, and so on, have come up while at these support boards.<br /><br />I _totally_ agree with this as I found myself quite often in the same position.<br /><br /><br />PS. FYI IIRC WTH means 'What the Hell'. OTOH IANAL so YMMV. HTH. TTFN