I don't want to sound harsh but in the last year or so every single site i've known using ubb switched to vb. Since I don't watch the ubb forums closely I can't say this for sure but I can only presume it has something to do with users asking for database/php support and (for one reason or another) not receiving it. Of course, the fact that vb has an import script from ubb is another reason...<br /><br />From Infopop's point of view wwwthreads could be just the thing it needes to become again the market leader, since it has some unique features -- including but not limited to database/php/threads -- not available in ubb. Of course, one can try to guess where the prices will end just by looking at the actual prices of ubb (which lacks above said features). It will also be interesting to see what will happen to ubb/it's price after the fall sale discount which ends on oct 14.<br /><br />Only time will tell how and where is wwwthreads (or 'Threads' as it is refered now) going. I'm still willing to contribute translations / ideeas / fixes / hacks to Scream if that will be allowed and user input will be taken into account like it is now. I hope that this merger will prove to be one step forward -- if not, well... nothing is ireplaceable: neither the customers nor the software.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Since I don't watch the ubb forums closely I can't say this for sure but I can only presume it has something to do with users asking for database/php support and (for one reason or another) not receiving it. Of course, the fact that vb has an import script from ubb is another reason...<p><hr></blockquote><p><br /><br />And this could be why Infopop is interested in the first place. They pissed quite a few folks off over the last few years making promises they couldn't keep. This was one of those promises. Some of their heavy-handedness and their absolutely outrageous pricing with little support is another.<br /><br />Rick I wish you well. I have sent a few folks over here over the years. I really like the software. But I don't like it enough to support an unethical company or to line the pockets of folks that don't want to put the people first. Personally, I think you might have been able to work this out differently - but it's your software, your choice. I hope it works out for you and you don't just get swallowed up whole and lost in the process.

I'm hoping that by the time most of everyone's upgrade contracts are expired everyone will see the benefits of this. All of you have been very supportive over the past couple of years and I don't want to disappoint any of you. For that reason I really do hope everyone gives this a chance so I can prove that this is for the better.

Scream... You have my support... And I will do something that I may or may not regret... but hey... If you need any help in some type of developement on the Perl side... please ask... I am a Perl Developer for a living and if you have looked at any of my hacks I have done you will see I am not a beginner and I kind of know what I am doing most of the time...<br /><br />So... if you need help just ask and you got it... I really enjoy using your system... and yes I know I am probably one of the newer subscribers but that is mainly I didn't get the MySQL for my site until recently... but I have been using your system on shadowbane.com site for about 2 years now... so...<br /><br />Well there you go... Good luck...<br /><br />Billy S.

Well well well...<br /><br />The infamous email seems to have eluded my email address, and the vemenous reply by some of you is at least partially shared by myself. It's simply a knee-jerk reaction to the situation, not because we are suddenly non-supportive of Scream.<br /><br />Yup, you infopop folks will need to deal with the chaos that naturally occurs at times like this. I've developed not a liking nor a disliking for you, I suppose you'll earn either in the coming weeks. I've never dealt with UBB directly except where it involved W3T in some fashion (conversion scripts, which we've had a lot of requests for, etc.), but I've dealt plenty with Rick and he's always shined. I have to believe this decision, even though I don't completely understand it, is the best one - there may be some details I'm not privy to.<br /><br />As for those of you angry / upset (choose your adjective) over this decision, my request is that you hold that in check long enough to see how these fellas earn our trust. This is of course up to you, but those are my plans.<br /><br />Strategically, UBB has been a weaker (in terms of backend capabilities), more froo froo, easier to install program, the latter point being a significant selling point. Marketing W3T seems like a good "heavy traffic" alternative for its customers. I'm in complete agreement that it's an unwise decision to take on the stigma of UBB to W3T - image is a VERY important factor in marketing. I'd either stick with WWWThreads or name it something entirely new - naming it UBBThreads implies it's going to be like UBB, which is what you all have said is not going to happen, aside from a few minor consistencies. See the contradiction?<br /><br />Reconsider the name...<br /><br />There will be a lot of motivation on the part of Infopop to keep as many of you loyal customers as they can. I for one will stay on the boat because of Scream. If in the process they show themselves as worthy of my loyalties, then I will try to be as helpful for them as I have for W3T.

I looked long and hard before picking wwwthreads and while I fully understand Screams need to do this, I do have my reservations. I am due to renew by the end of the month and was planning to this weekend. Now I will be holding off to see what Infopop comes up with.<br />I just visited their site and support forum and am not overly impressed.<br />I will reserve judgement till monday but they will need to do something a lot different than what they are doing now for me to switch over.<br /><br />

Yeah. Excatly right. The success of UBB and vb I think is the layout and graphics. Phorum has been around for a long time but never take off because the layout design is poor (IMHO).<br /><br />Let's consider getting the Infopop guys to make many many sets of good w3t themes (and I know they are going to charge for it - that's why I don't like them, I'd rather code it myself) and I think people will start to realise how much better w3t is comparing to UBB.<br /><br />And I really do think if there is a flatfile db version of w3t that have all the features but doesn't require mySQL, no one will want to look at UBB. []/testimages/icons/tongue.gif[/]<br />

im lookin foward to this ive been a happy user of UBB for years now and i think this is a good idea *waits to be flamed*<br /><br />:/ i notive many people askin about hacks so i decided to post this . tho infopop dosent have a hack forum on there main suport site there are a few running . www.ubbdev.com is one of the bigger ones out there, im sure w3t hack coul dbe imported to the site or start one of there own if infopop wouldent make a main hack forum . well only time will tell....

I guess I'll stick my two cents in... I chose w3t for 1 reason. THREADS. This was absolutely essential to me. There are too few choices that support this. UBB doesn't, VBulletin has been adamant that they won't and I haven't seen anything else that is really worthy, and I don't mind paying for software that gives me value. What I see is interesting about this is: This whole decision follows gossamer-threads introduction of their own forum software. And with their Links and Webmail now out and their intent to drive home a one-stop community software shop, and of course their pretty solid reputation, they will be a player, probably one that should concern both UBB and W3T. Their pricing is on the high end, but usually well worth it from what I have seen. Everything is modular and template driven and I really am waiting for them to release their beta of the forum software and pricing.<br /><br />I popped in over at ubb's site and here's where I see issues. Obviously there is the pricing issue. But beyond that, you have flat file ubb or an oracle hosted app. Oracle isn't mysql, they are different and how many of us can afford oracle licenses... or want to when mysql works so well. I don't use php so I don't really care about that, but mod_perl is critical to me, and I don't see that either. And then comes the really big issue of threaded views. How will they handle all of that? I don't know. <br /><br />And as for hacking, what is an "Official" hacking site... From a community perspective, I'd compare their support forums to the ones here, but both fall short of what's over at vbulletin. Not just for hacking, but for really getting the software to kick a** on whatever platform you are on through optimization, tuning, etc... To me that is so much more critical than anything above and beyond base features, and to be honest I've not been satisfied with the scalability of this application, I've expressed that before and I don't like the answer "you'll need to buy another server, that's what all of our big clients have done." Unfortunately for me vbulletin has been pretty adamant in their statements that they will not support threaded views. And the only thing left that I've seen is phorum.org and I'd really rather have a mod_perl app than a php one. I've already hired a mysql programmer to rewrite code, optimize queries, etc... and I think we have made a lot of good strides, but we still have a ways to go... And now I guess I feel a bit better about that decision frankly. It's the right one for me, but probably not for others.<br /><br />I can understand folks reactions in being upset, and I sympathize with you. The way the internet economy has gone, the last thing everyone needs is prices going up while revenue is going down. But remember, if you paid for a license to w3t, you still have that license, the annual fee you pay is for upgrades. you can keep using it, you just won't have access to upgrades. But my guess is most of you have so manyhacks built in, that if you couldn't add another one in, you could live with that if you had to.<br /><br />A thought for some folks, maybe someone like Eileen would be willing to set up a forum on their site in case this one just disappears (which considering everything wouldn't surprise me). That way if folks still wanted to continue using what they paid for, there would be a place to discuss it and I think a few of you have forums to talk about w3t already, so another woudn't be a big deal, Eileen's is just the first one that came to my mind since I've actually been to that one once or twice.<br /><br />Right now, my initial reaction is I have my licenses for the software, I'll continue to use them and until I clearly see something better come along, I just won't have access to upgrades. In the meantime we'll get this puppy screaming (no pun intended) on our own, and basically have our own personal development branch. I can live with that... I have all along... And if ubb puts the resources behind to really make it a scalable and competitive application, I'm happy to look at it. <br /><br />Until then, I wish you all the best with your decisions and your boards/communities and I hope that ubb comes up with the right answers to all of your very good questions... make them work like sons of you-know-what's to earn your trust, and more importantly, your business... And Scream, I hope this match is everything you expect it will be, good luck.<br /><br />Late<br /><br />-------<br />Just as I finished this, I popped back over to gossamer-threads.com and the new version is posted in beta and the price will be $200 for commercial use - I'm downloading now... :)<br />

It seems that Rick is going to be worked at Infopop and along with his product WWWThreads Pro, right?<br /><br /> I don't think that Infopop will keep those two familiar softwares running on a similar market base. There should be many different features and new goals but not just made both UBB/WWWThreads Pro the forum scripts.<br /><br />So does WWWThreads remains to be a community but not another UBB clone or UBB-like forum software?<br /><br />And what I've concerned is the performance and quality. Will it be better or worst? Since UBB did getting worst when it grows.

I can't say its all bad. Its just we had it very good with a great product and a direct line to the MAN . I just upped for one extra year of upgrades so I am good for a while. One way to lock in your upgrade costs now. I am good till 2004 and if there is something that is much more appealing by then well I will just have to check it out . I have a feeling Scream will keep us the best and sharpest threads around !<br /><br />

>>maybe someone like Eileen would be willing to set up a forum on their site <br />Yes, I already have my W3T Hacks board - I could easily expand, unless 6Pack coverts his site to handle all of it.<br /><br />Like you I'm going to wait and observe what happens before I decide what to do for the future.<br />

I thought this is a good news (at least to me not all that bad) since W3T is going commericial for a period of time, it need some more professional service/support. I thought that was the reason Rick decided to sold it out to Infopop to at least provide a better service to his customers and all friends support him for years at W3T.<br /><br />At least I thought Rick is still the leader of this product and promised to keep working on it. It might change the name (althoght I don't think it's a good idea to rename to UBBThreads), but it will not be vanished. And I hope the quality, performance, and sincerity that Rick had brought will never be affected.

Scream Forums would be a great name! []/testimages/icons/smile.gif[/]

My 2 pennies:<br /><br />I am an ex Infopop customer- I hold three licences for their products- none of which they use- I use another product now.<br /><br />So here is what IMVHO you guys can expect:<br /><br />* 1 overtly racist moderator on the support forums<br />* Forum members membership removed if they ask 'difficult' questions (Hi Dave)<br />* Slow development (Unless they allow Rick to do his thing - well see<br />* Buggy beta code tested on releases to the public<br />* Astonishing licence agreements<br /><br />This is a sad announcement for all users of wwwthreads I wish you all all the best in the future.<br /><br />It's not going to be pleasant

Long time user, I don't post much here.<br />Heck I am so old I have a space in my user name :)<br /><br />Infopop is going to uphold the existing license we bought the software under?Correct? If I read the letter correctly.<br /><br />I do not see why everyone is upset....<br /><br />Just keep what you got and don't update to the infopop version if you have problems dealing with infopop. Unless I am missing something their is no time periods in the current license so you can hack and use your existing forum forever without giving infopop a cent.<br /><br />I trust Rick in making this change and I know it will all turn out for the better.

>>As for those of you angry / upset (choose your adjective) over this decision, my request is that you hold that in check long enough to see how these fellas earn our trust. This is of course up to you, but those are my plans.<<<br /><br />I gave them a chance for a whole year. What I encountered when I visited there forum was not for me. Thankfully I never needed support when I used UBB. While I don't pretend to be a perl programmer it is similiar enough to C that I was able to work out the problems that came up when I ran UBB. I also know bad coding technique when I see it and UBB was not the best coded app I seen and I see thousands of lines of code everyday. I seen people post asking for help with a problem and either the reply made it sound like the customer was wasting the support persons time and if the person asking didn't fully understand how to fix a problem and posted again they would be met with a unpleasant response almost to the point of telling the user they are too stupid to use the product.<br />Read David_Campbell's post above and you'll get a little of what used to go on over there. I had no idea that it still goes on.<br /><br />After thinking on this for the last 24 hours I have decided that since I own a license and am free to use w3t for as long as I want I will continue to do so until I finish the forum project I started last year. I never upgraded my forum that often anyway. It was a pain to add in the hacks and changes I made. I ran 4.0 until 5.0 came out and ran 5.0 until 5.2b1 of PHP. I just upgraded to 5.4.4 PHP and my users love it and it has all the features my community needs. If a feature is suggested I will just add it myself. I gave Infopop a chance before they were Infopop and I won't do it again. The old saying, once bitten, twice shy.<br /><br />This is nothing against Rick. I believe Ricks work is the best forum package out. Since I first switched over I noticed that he was a hands on kind of guy and always was quick to help you out with a problem. I only hope that you continue giving the kind of support the users here have come to know. I know if you have your way you will. Lets only hope they don't shove you off in a corner and tell you to code the product and leave the rest to us. Good luck to you. I have a feeling you just might need it.<br /><br />

Howdy from Texas :)<br /><br />My name is Allen Ayres, a moderator at infopop's support forum and admin at ubbdev. Just wanted to welcome you guys to the IP community. I don't speak for them and don't always agree with everything they say/do, but in getting to know the people that work there I can say they are good people and offer the best support of any Internet Community Company presently in existence. You'll find present support at Infopop's forums are pleasant and helpful - check the Win32 Install forum The official Infopop installation and technical support, while not cheap, is fast, efficient, and professional.<br /><br />David Campbell has been banned from infopop and ubbdev forums for his attitude and consistent posting of flames. Take his posts here for what it's worth.<br /><br />I know Infopop people are currently trying to contact people here to work together in putting an "official threads" hacking community together. Charles is an important part of ours and I don't see why Rick can't remain an important part of yours.<br /><br />Anyways, enough.. have a good weekend and welcome again.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Just keep what you got and don't update to the infopop version if you have problems dealing with infopop. Unless I am missing something their is no time periods in the current license so you can hack and use your existing forum forever without giving infopop a cent. <br /><p><hr></blockquote><p><br /><br />Infopop has a history of not keeping their word when it comes to previous licensing. I've seen it before, been there, done that. They don't keep their word and it's the users that suffer.<br /><br />My absolute dislike of this entire situation is from personal experience with Infopop. It's not an experience I wish to repeat.

Eileen, In view of the FAQ just recently posted and ubb not supporting perl and the forums moving shortly, can you get together with 6Pack and one of of you (or someone else) please set up a board for those of us who will now be left out in the cold with our perl versions... I'd really like to see someone do this and have a URL announced ASAP so we have somewhere to go. I realize that ubb said they would have one, however, if I'm not going to be using their product, why in the world would I want to be on their site? If necessary I can probably find a domain name I'm not using actively and set up something, but time is not my best friend these days. Thx... <br /><br /><br />