This thread is continued from <A HREF="http://www.wwwthreads.com/perl/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=wishlist&Number=16894" target="_new">http://www.wwwthreads.com/perl/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=wishlist&Number=16894</A><br /><br />Over on the devel site I have converted a couple of the scripts to templates. Most of the functions from w3t.pm that print out HTML are finished. I've also finished with wwwthreads.pl and postlist.pl. <br /><br />This seems to be working very nicely. It does require several templates for complicated scripts, like postlist.pl requires 5 different templates, with 2 of the templates having 4 variations, but this will probably be the exception instead of the rule. wwwthreads.pl required 5 templates but there were no variations of any of the templates. The majority of the other scripts will probably only require one or two. It might sound confusing, but it's not that bad.<br /><br />Anyone interested can go look at the devel site at <A HREF="http://www.wwwthreads.com/cgi-bin/devel/wwwthreads.pl" target="_new">http://www.wwwthreads.com/cgi-bin/devel/wwwthreads.pl</A>. Take a look at wwwthreads.pl or postlist.pl, view the source and you will see where each template begins and ends as I've commented the templates for this purpose.<br /><br />I've also symlinked the templates directory if anyone wants to take a look at the actual templates to see what they look like. You'll probably need to again view the source of these as when you click on them your browser might try to display them. You can view the templates at <A HREF="http://www.wwwthreads.com/templates" target="_new">http://www.wwwthreads.com/templates</A>.<br /><br />Also, at the bottom of the template directory listing, you'll see the README file that will be included in the templates directory if you care to read it.<br /><br />Feedback appreciated.<br /><br />---<br />Scream<br /><A HREF="http://www.wcsoft.net" target="_new">http://www.wcsoft.net</A><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Scream on 6/8/00 03:28 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

Wow Scream!<br /><br />This is excellent!! I am looking foward to using templates instead of having to mess with the perl code. One suggestion, as far as the name of the templates go, could you end them with a name that describes what html they output and not just a number? I really like it []/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/]<br />Mike<br /><br />

Scream,<br /><br />The templates look excellent!! Will be much easier to fool around with the design of the forum - how far do you plan to go with the templates? All files? Just the major ones that are most commonly used, or??<br /><br />Thanks!<br /><br />Muhammad Chishti<br />Creative dIRECTOR<br />[:white]<A HREF="http://www.imcuniverse.com" target="_new">http://www.imcuniverse.com</A></font color=white>

I originally was being a bit more descriptive, but then the name of the templates ended up being very large. That's why I went with numbers and then in the README it explains what each template actually prints out. I'll see if I can come up with some descriptions that will keep the template name down to a decent size, but can't guarantee anything.<br /><br />---<br />Scream<br /><A HREF="http://www.wcsoft.net" target="_new">http://www.wcsoft.net</A><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Scream on 6/9/00 09:17 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

The plan is to do every file in the user's section. The admin section will remain the same.<br /><br />---<br />Scream<br /><A HREF="http://www.wcsoft.net" target="_new">http://www.wcsoft.net</A>

Scream,<br /><br />will it be possible to have different looks for the categories? I would love to have the chance to have different styles in the categories.<br /><br />Carsten<br /><br />--<br />Carsten Müller, Hamburg (Germany)

Not at first. That's a feature that various people have asked for. Templates make this possible, but it would be a bit too complex for starters because I still don't know what type of issues or problems templates are going to create on various files. I'm just starting out on this so I don't want to promise too much before I know what I'm doing[]/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/].<br /><br />---<br />Scream<br /><A HREF="http://www.wcsoft.net" target="_new">http://www.wcsoft.net</A>

You know, Sony Music does this somehow... but their forum is quite custom it seems.<br /><br />Muhammad Chishti<br />Creative dIRECTOR<br />[:white]<A HREF="http://www.imcuniverse.com" target="_new">http://www.imcuniverse.com</A></font color=white>

It looks very promising.<br /><br />Two priorities, I think. <br />1. Cross-browser compatibility.<br />2. Very short names - for speed (plus the explanatory README).<br /><br /><br />[]http://www.amdragon.com/images/eileensig.gif[/]

Sorry for being the 'odd one out' but I think it's way too complicated.. Might as well edit perl directly... <br /><br />May I suggest you try something like 1 per script... where you have tags for repeating sections.. e.g. (tags shown as '{' and '}')<br /><br />postlist.pl example:<br /><br />Header info goes here<br /><table blah blah blah><br />Header row info for table<br />{ITEM}<br />Formatting for each<br />{/ITEM}<br />End of table stuff<br /></table><br /><br />The {ITEM} {/ITEM} would repeat for each post that existed in the forum. This would make the templates look very 'real'...<br /><br />Don't think of this as a bad remark on what you've done.. but as a positive comment. I admit I would probably give up myself :-)<br /><br />My idea does have one drawback.. it's not possible for individuals to specify different templates for different parts of the same pages. T.b. honest.. I don't think that a web site colours are the key to its success.... People go to web sites for what they offer... Customization of the kind 'what information you want to see' is good.. - Therefore.. for any 'choose your skin' options... please make them optional (i.e. admin can disable)<br /><br />Sebastien.<br /><br /><br /><br />[:red]Sebastien Lahtinen<br />[i][:white]www.chatsplat.com<br />[]seb@chatsplat.com[/]

Scream,<br /><br />I think this could work very well. One thing that I'm concerned about though--will this have any significant impact on server load? It seems to me that at the very least, each perl script is going to have to open one template file, parse it, and display the results. Will this be too minimal to really make a difference either way? <br /><br />

I think the template concept will always have an impact on server load... Maybe they can be compiled into a better format?<br /><br />Top performance-wise would be to make a system which rebuilt the CGI.. but that would make it hard to edit the CGI which is something people like me want to do...<br /><br />seb<br /><br /><br />[:red]Sebastien Lahtinen<br />[i][:white]www.chatsplat.com<br />[]seb@chatsplat.com[/]

It may seem alot more complicated, but even though there are several templates per script it will end up being a lot easier, especially for PERL novices. The reason being is without templates the HTML is buried in ifs and elses, and it's spread out over various portions of the script. With templates all of the HTML for that portion of the script is in one place.<br /><br />Your thoughts about 1 template per script is something that I had wished for as well. But, unfortunately, it's not the way the FastTemplate module works. Maybe someday I can write my own to do something like this. It's highly possible, because I never really thought there was a chance to do templates period a couple of weeks ago.<br /><br />---<br />Scream<br /><A HREF="http://www.wcsoft.net" target="_new">http://www.wcsoft.net</A>

Very good question, and I share your concerns. Once I get a few more scripts done then I'll do some tests and see what type of load impact this has. My *guess* is that it won't have too much of an impact, because it does the parsing in a singular regular expression. Also, using templates cuts down on some of the code complexity.<br /><br />Once I get the template version done I'll put it out in beta mode so people can test it before making it a general release, so I can get more feedback on it.<br /><br />---<br />Scream<br /><A HREF="http://www.wcsoft.net" target="_new">http://www.wcsoft.net</A>

Please make it easy to put the templates back into the scripts then.. i'd rather have them in perl.. Will this be possible?<br /><br />Although my idea would make it complex.. it wouldn't necessary be that hard as templates are pre-built.. so you only edit them at novice level<br /><br />ALSO.. please add the subject to the "e-mail any replies to me" option... At the moment it has url + text.. no subject<br /><br />seb<br /><br /><br />[:red]Sebastien Lahtinen<br />[i][:white]www.chatsplat.com<br />[]seb@chatsplat.com[/]

That wouldn't really be possible. The main reason being is that there are different templates for different portions of the code depending on the user preferences.<br /><br />Don't get me wrong. I'm not going to try and shove templates down anybody's throat's[]/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/]. But, using templates has been the oldest and most requested feature wishlist by potential and existing customers. So, it's one of those things that if it works and the majority of users want it, then it'll go in. If the majority do not, then it won't and it will have been a big waste of my time[]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/]. Either way, I've got to at least try because so many have asked for it. <br /><br />---<br />Scream<br /><A HREF="http://www.wcsoft.net" target="_new">http://www.wcsoft.net</A>

People want templates as it makes customization easy. I agree with that, and I think many will accept your system.<br /><br />My hope is that I can keep up with new things in w3t but still have it in perl (assuming they aren't all single templates).. It's a personal preference and I wouldn't expect you to keep it there for me... but i don't think it's that hard to put it back like that if someone like me wants.. and once someone does it.. other people can just copy that script :-) (there are some people who want it in perl for efficiency reasons ANYWAY)<br /><br />seb<br /><br /><br />[:red]Sebastien Lahtinen<br />[i][:white]www.chatsplat.com<br />[]seb@chatsplat.com[/]

<br />The system looks promising. One question for now, does this template system parse templates for SSI calls? It may not do so initially but I've seen it in other template based scripts, and I think it would make it a lot more easy to blend W3T with other dynamic areas of a site.<br /><br /><br />

This is a thought I had when I made my first post on the subject, so I'm glad to hear someone else mention it.<br /><br />If a good system could be put together, we could have the best of both worlds--easy HTML customizing through templates, and maximum system efficiency by cutting the templates out of runtime compilation.<br /><br />It would be more complicated to put this system together for Scream, but it's something to think about.<br /><br />

I've been looking at this hack that allows SSIs to work within CGI-generated output: <br /><A HREF="http://www.wwwthreads.com/perl/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=custom&Number=15791" target="_new">http://www.wwwthreads.com/perl/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=custom&Number=15791</A> and wondering how/if it could be incorporated into the new template system. Or is that already covered?<br /><br />[]http://www.amdragon.com/images/eileensig.gif[/]