UBB.Developers Forums General Discussion Suggestions and Feedback Some thoughts

Over the past several weeks, the popularity of WWWThreads has gone through the roof. Within one day of releasing a notice of version 3.5 on a couple software sites, the number of downloads were close to 1,000.

While this has exceeded my expectations, it has added a few problems. Along with the popularity comes more support questions and more wishes for certain features. In my quest to keep WWWThreads an Open Source project, these are just beginning to suffer as my full time job and family demand the majority of my time.

To compensate for this I have been looking at several options. Support contracts is a high possibility. The support forums would exist for users to help other users. Email support and a special support forum would be available to those that opt for a support contract. There are a few other options I have looked at as well, and these may be addressed in the future.

Another option that might be a possibiltiy depending on the continued growth in use of WWWThreads would be a commercial version. This is something I am really shying away from, but to keep the quality high for a massive number of users would require more time than I can devote to a non-profit project. Again, this all depends on if other things mentioned don't work out. This would involve a dedicated time of various rewrites and other things to make it worthwile to purchase a commercial version. Price would depend on the number of people interested on this, and the general feedback, but it would definitely be less than what other forum packages cost.

I am trying to explore all of my options, and although by posting them here I will probably get more than a few flames[]/forumimages/wink.gif[/], I figured the best way to get some public feedback would be to put my thoughts out to the public.

If you have any ideas, thoughts or comments on the above, feel free to send them to []http://www.screamingweb.com[/]

First off, congratulations on how popular the board's become. Personally, I'm not surprised; it's a hell of a piece of work.

I can completely understand how a project of this scope could occupy more time than you have... Been there a few times myself. And though you didn't say it specifically, I bet it can be really frustrating to want to do a lot more to improve it than you feel you have the time for. To be honest, I've been really amazed at the amount of time you've dedicated to improving and supporting WWWThreads up to this point. You've got to be a prime candidate for Carpal Tunnel Syndrome by now.

Anyway, I wouldn't have a problem with you setting up support contracts. The only drawback that I can see to that approach is that, unless you enact a strict policy for yourself of not responding to requests for help on the "free" boards, you'll not only have the load you have now, but you'll also have another set of people who you'll then be obligated to make time for. If you aren't careful, you'll end up having to spend even more time supporting the board than you already do. Do you think you can do that? I'm not saying you can't -- but considering how helpful you've been to this point, I bet it'd take a huge effort for you to refrain from trying to help everyone with a problem. It sounds, though, like that may be what you need to do.

If that's the way it's got to be, so be it. You've set up a great infrastructure for users to help each other here, and there seem to be plenty of people who'd be willing and able to answer just about anything that pops up. I think one of the reasons that users aren't always answering each others' questions currently is that it seems like you'll always chime in with an answer eventually. If you can't be relied on to answer everything, though, I honestly believe the gap will be filled somehow. Maybe not right away -- it'll take a little while for people to get used to the fact that they haven't got near-instant 24-hour tech support from the program's author -- but it'll happen.

As far as going to a commercial version to keep the quality high... well, that's your choice, and I'm not about to tell you not to do it. I would, however, like to toss out a couple other options to consider, especially since you said yourself you're "shying away" from that:

Make it easier for others to contribute fixes and improvements to the code.

Right now, it can be a bit difficult to contribute changes to the code. We can never really know what parts you might be working on, so the code's something of a moving target. I believe I say a post by you a while back saying that you'd consider setting up the code on a CVS system, which I think would be great, and I believe would go a long way toward making it possible for others to do some of the work you're now doing.

Delegate

Right now, if I'm not mistaken, every change to the WWWThreads code has to be entered by you at some point. Users can post customizations on that board, but for them to be incorporated, you've got to personally add them to the code. When a user who may not be able to write code suggests a modification, in most cases you've got to figure out how to do it, then make the code changes.

How about if you had a board (or something similar) where you could post things like "Who will add the ability to have both Post and Preview buttons?" (just as an example, since a certain person who shall remain nameless seems to think it'd be a good thing []/forumimages/smile.gif[/]). Again, I think this is a situation where a revision control system would be of great benefit, to keep multiple coders from stomping on each others' toes (including yours) as they make changes to the various modules.

In any case, this being your project, you should have every right to say what should and shouldn't be added or modified in the code, but it seems to me you might free up a lot of time for yourself if you didn't have to be the guy who did everything. Of course, that might mean letting go of a little of the control you have now, so it's also a matter of how much you want WWWThreads to remain a solo project.

Apologies for not responding sooner -- and whatever you decide, thanks for letting us know what you're thinking. And thanks again for giving us this really great piece of software.

Speaking as a "certain person who shall remain nameless", I agree with everything you say. I'd also suggest a total feature freeze and full concentration on getting all the bugs out of this version before anything else is even considered.

(BTW got that fix I was asking for? []/forumimages/wink.gif[/] )

Hi, I agree with trick. Congrats. However I'd argue that the best way to keep the quality high is to keep this open source, and create a CVS tree where people can add their own hacks. This is the Linux model and it has worked so well because opening the source fully like that enables many more people to contribute to the project. In fact, I'd argue that a big component of the popularity of this project is the fact that it is open source (not to mention its MySQL enabled). This was what originally attracted me - the combination of open source and database backend. These two features told me that a) I'd be able to modify the code to suite my needs and b) it would be really easy to do. Would I have been attracted to this project if it wasn't Open Source. Maybee, but I wouldn't have been so attentive to the potentials at the start.

I think if you open up the source tree, and start doing support contracts, you'll do fine. Opening a CVS tree will really ease your work and allow people like me, for example, to add features without your intervention (I believe you still sign off on final changes). Providing support contracts will probably give you more work than you need.

just my two cents. I think it would be a shame to spin a commercial product out of this.

regards

mike

Here's a thought: I tried installing MySQL unsuccessfully (too many problems to sort through) and had to give up. If you are still considering a commercial release, maybe you could have a non-MySQL freeware release? This would accomplish several things. First, it would save the most powerful version for the paying users. Just as importantly, it would open up a wonderful program to the widest number of people (I think the percentage of people with SQL available is currently pretty low). Once they've seen the features and are hooked on it, it would be natural to try and upgrade to the SQL database. As it stands now, I can't even set up the program to see if I'm happy with all the administrative and formatting features.

I would definitely rather see you go this way than to offer a watered-down version that just frustrates and tempts you into considering the commercial release! By the way, I'm very impressed that you would throw these thoughts out to the users for consideration. Nice gesture.

Dan

Just to demonstrate the value of OpenSource, after installing WWWThreads and talking with some other faculty, I thought that a good thing to have as an adjunct to WWWThreads would be a good client that would provide full access to MySQL database in general, but the WWWTHreads stuff in particular. If a "good" general client was available, I thought, then some of the features wishes would go away because they could be handled as part of regular database maintanence.

So, knowing the the code was open source, I stole it. Well, appropriated it for the glory of the revolution would be more like it ( I did ask SCREAM though). Not all of it, but parts of it, and wrote a Web client for MySQL with the same look and feel as WWWTHREADS

http://global.athabascau.ca/cgi-bin/scripts/tmanager/login.pl (you can play with the guest account and look around by just logging in with the defaults). Its still a bit buggy, and many features need to be added, but its a nice tool so far and we've already used it for some university admin stuff with MySQL. Something we wouldn't have thought about doing with only a text based client to use.

the point, I only did this because WWWThreads was open source. This may or may not be something that meshes with WWWThreads, but it is something directly influenced. A contribution only made possible by the Open Source nature of WWWThreads.

mike

Mike,

I was very impressed by your program, is the source available to the public?

ya its at http://www.icaap.org/software/lmmanager

mike

Excellent! This script will prove to be quite useful, especially for WWWThreads administration. I wouldn't mind seeing a copy of it bundled along with the actual W3T package.

Oh, and here's my submission for your "give the software a name" contest: "That Script That Does That Stuff... You Know, That Stuff". A little lengthy perhaps, but I think almost anyone would agree that it's still quite catchy. Please let me know if I win the contest... I've been told numerous times that "I may already be a winner" by a Mr. Ed McMahon, so perhaps this is what he was referring to. []/forumimages/wink.gif[/]

>Excellent! This script will prove to be quite useful, especially for WWWThreads >administration. I wouldn't mind seeing a
>copy of it bundled along with the actual W3T package.

Well like I say, its still missing some functions and the delete funtion is a bit buggy when there is no primary_key. So that has to be worked on. But yet, it should help administration of wwwthreads because it give fullaccess to the data. It also obviates the need for scream to code some admin functions.

Plus, its already helped me get my head around WWWThreads. I'm coding a WWWThreads additon that provides user information like last on, last post, subscriptions, and recent messages. That's been made easier by the ability to
browse the WWWTHreads tables

>Oh, and here's my submission for your "give the software a name" contest: "That >Script That Does That Stuff... You Know,
>That Stuff". A little lengthy perhaps, but I think almost anyone would agree >that it's still quite catchy. Please let me know if I
>win the contest... I've been told numerous times that "I may already be a >winner" by a Mr. Ed McMahon, so perhaps this is
>what he was referring to.

perhaps :-) I'll let you know.

mike

It's really nice. Have you had a look at phpMyAdmin - http://www.phpwizard.net/phpMyAdmin/ - it isn't as attractive as yours but it might give you some ideas.

Hi thanks for the heads up on this. Yes, it does give me some ideas. Already added some functions and placeholders fer more

mike

That's good. I like yours much better.